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Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14147398 09/23/19
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Overkill45 Offline
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I still use oil on the plug threads too. Just a little and wipe off any excess. Some states did consider it to be smokeless. Im pretty sure most have changed that ruling now.

My favorite way to clean BH209 fouling is run a dry patch or two first all the way through the bore with the plug removed. That will push out most of it. Then use whatever centerfire solvent you like to actually clean the bore. After its clean run a couple of patches with a synthetic gun oil or CLP.

BH209 fouling is virtually non corrosive but under some conditions such as high humidity it can happen. So if you have more than one tag to fill just run a dry patch to swab most of it out after your first shot of the hunt. That should get you a couple days or more without much risk of any rust.

BP

Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14148803 09/23/19
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Stuff is expensive, but dam it just plain works. I tried some Alliant Black MZ this weekend. Price is right, but doesn’t compare to BH209 unfortunately.


Stuck in airports, Terrorized
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Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14149125 09/23/19
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Dinny Offline
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What diameter are the 300gr XTPs you're using? 44cal or 45 cal? Are they the standard or magnum XTPs?

Thanks, Dinny


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Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14182288 10/06/19
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I have been using it for a few years. It is probably the best substitute if you have the right type breechplug and priming system to take advantage of it.

Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Dinny] #14182775 10/06/19
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DrGnarr Offline
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Originally Posted by Dinny
What diameter are the 300gr XTPs you're using? 44cal or 45 cal? Are they the standard or magnum XTPs?

Thanks, Dinny

45. Standard I believe. Ill check

Last edited by DrGnarr; 10/06/19.
IC-A

Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14182907 10/06/19
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Pappy348 Offline
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FWIW, my crew has used the .45s. Standards. Killer-dillers.


What fresh Hell is this?

Don't be a Provincial Nitwit.
Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14183865 10/07/19
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BH209 SURE Doesn’t work for my Applications. I shoot mostly “Land Riding/Slip fit Bullets For Target/Bench Rest, BH209 Requires X Amount of Compression in order to Reliably ignite, I went ahead and tried it anyway. This was in my New Knight Mountaineer .45 Cal 1:20 Twist, With New Lehigh Breech Plug. I had 2 Bullets Roll out of my Barrel By the Force of the Primer Going off, They actually went a little ways 😁 Like 15 Yards or so and Rolled down the Old Road i was Setup in. I sat there at my Bench and Actually laughed, I couldn’t believe that a 209 Shotgun Primer could Go Through the Powder Charge, push the Bullet out of the Barrel and NOT set the Charge off?? I went back to Swiss Real Blackpowder, it goes off Immediately regardless of Compression. Shoot what works best for ya 👍


The best use i found for BH209, a Roadside Flare
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]


“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown
Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14183966 10/07/19
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when it comes to inlines, blackhorn209 only! I'd say lewis had an issue with the knight breech set up in general. I can load up a powerbelt or thor, seat the projectile with 2 thumbs over the end of the ramrod and she goes bang every single time. This is with a CVA/Traditions. Even my Winchester X-150 will shoot it reliably with the hex head (enclosed) cva breech plug without a hitch.

My brother in laws new mexico buck from last week. 110gr bh209. barnes tmz 245gr, federal 209a primer. 201 yard shot.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: bigblock455] #14184076 10/07/19
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Originally Posted by bigblock455
when it comes to inlines, blackhorn209 only! I'd say lewis had an issue with the knight breech set up in general. I can load up a powerbelt or thor, seat the projectile with 2 thumbs over the end of the ramrod and she goes bang every single time. This is with a CVA/Traditions. Even my Winchester X-150 will shoot it reliably with the hex head (enclosed) cva breech plug without a hitch.

My brother in laws new mexico buck from last week. 110gr bh209. barnes tmz 245gr, federal 209a primer. 201 yard shot.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


That is a GIANT STUD Of a Whitetail Buck right there!! That’s a Dream Buck 👍

Me and BH209 was a Disaster!! I absolutely DESPISE that Stuff!! I obviously don’t need it, nor feel like I’m missing anything by not using it!! My Breech plug setup is designed for BH209, It is a Brand New Lehigh Bare Primer Plug and is properly Headspaced for ZERO Blow back

This is me at 600 Yards with my Knight Mountaineer and Swiss Real Blackpowder


And Here i am at 825 Yards with my Knight Mountaineer and Swiss Real Blackpowder, I need to get back for part 2 of this


Last edited by Idaholewis; 10/07/19.

“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown
Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14184104 10/07/19
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thats fine and all but you just didnt put the time and effort into shooting it IMO. If its not firing it, thats a plug problem.

IC-B

Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14184124 10/07/19
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Idaholewis Offline
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This is typical Accuracy that i get, and i FULLY EXPECT from my Knight Mountaineer and Swiss 2F Real Blackpowder. I don’t see how I could better this with BH209? Again, I don’t feel like i am missing anything by not using BH209

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]


“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown
Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14184142 10/07/19
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I am not knocking BH209 for folks that use, and swear by it. I know it is used and LOVED By MANY! It wins Competition inline Shoots etc. etc. I am simply giving my opinion of it, from my hands on experience with it, Which wasn’t good! I have questioned if the Can of it that i got was Somehow Bad? It was on a Close out here at our North 40 Outfitters, They couldn’t hardly give this BH209 away here! It sat on the Shelf FOREVER even at the Close out price of 19-20 Bucks a Can. I went ahead and Bought a Can just in case i ended up with a Rifle someday that was designed for it. I am Glad I only bought 1 Can of it.


“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown
Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14185367 10/07/19
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IdahoLewis, I never had good results with it neither . The cost is high. I am going to go with just black powder and think I am going to stick with Old Eyensford. A bit cheaper than Swiss, a bit cleaner than Goex. I went back to goes, this weekend and noticed it makes more gunk on the patch between shots. I am only at 50 gr anyway for 2F and 45 for 3F. That Green Mountain Barrel does shoot tighter groups than the TC Hawken, however the TC Hawken barrel was bought used .


But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14185620 10/07/19
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I've shot darn near 70 POUNDS of it, so I think I have quite a bit more experience than most with bh209. Especially in so called muzzleloaders that are not even supposed to be able to shoot it. Im not a huge knight fan to begin with, never trusted the company or their product. Luckily for me I stick to my sidelocks these days. The inline stuff isn't the way to go.

Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14186218 10/08/19
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Truth is i did NOT stick with BH209 and Try to make it work, When it FAILED to ignite my TRIED AND TRUED Target Loads OVER N OVER, i was DONE with BH209 Right there.

My first outing, I had pre weighed BH209 charges (I weigh all of my powder to a 1/10 Grain) My bullets just barely touched the Rifling on the way Down, My Ramrod alone was enough weight to push them down, I was using Oversize .50 Cal 1/8” Wool Felt in my .452 Bore, I pulled the Trigger, The Cap went off, But NO Boom?? I checked the Bullet with my Ramrod to make sure it hadn’t moved (a 209 Shotgun primer ALONE can easily Push a Bullet ahead) I grabbed another REGULAR Win 209 Primer and Tried again, NOTHING?? I tried this several times, FINALLY 1 of these attempts Spit My bullet out in the Rd in front of me??? I sat at my Bench thinking to myself, Did i just see this happen? LOL! It was FRUSTRATING as hell, But at the same time it was kinda funny (if that makes sense?) I could NOT believe what i had just witnessed?? A 209 Shotgun Primer Going OFF Through a Powder Charge and Pushing my Bullet out of my Barrel. For crying out loud I just watched my Bullet go about 10-15 Yards tumbling down the Rd in front of me 😂🤣😂 I pointed my Barrel straight at the Ground and popped 2 or 3 more Primers Through it in hopes of Clearing the Wool Wad, it did.

The Reason i say Compression was my problem, is i had Brought along .060 Vegetable Fibre Wads to Try as well, They Create a MUCH Tighter seal, They go down the Bore with Fair Resistance. I loaded the Rifle back up, BUT this time i used a TIGHT fitting Vege Fibre Wad on the Powder. I Pulled the Trigger and BOOM! That shot went off IMMEDIATELY. I was DARN Lucky i had brought the Tight fitting Vege Fibre Wads along this Trip, They saved the Day, Allowing me to Fire my New Rifle. But even with the Vege Fibre Wads they were Hit & Miss, With several Fail to Fires.

That was the END of me and BH209 Powder.


“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown
Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14186249 10/08/19
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If i were to go back and Try BH209 again today with new Knowledge and understanding of it, I could make it work, BUT that would require me to Change my ENTIRE Loading procedure by using TIGHT Fitting Bullets, or Sabots. I am simply NOT willing to do that, My Stuff is TRIED AND TRUED PROVEN and I’m not about to Change it in order to make BH209 Work for me.

Simply Put, BH209 Does NOT work for my Specific Application. My feelings aren’t hurt in the least, I don’t feel that i am missing anything. My Swiss Real Blackpowder Works STELLAR for me, It goes off IMMEDIATELY regardless of Bullet Fit, Wad type, etc.

This explains my Problem, as I’ve said before It was my Own Fault that BH209 didn’t work for me, Western Powders tells you what you need to do, or at least what they Recommend that you do. Scroll down and Open No. 5

https://www.blackhorn209.com/specs/ignition-guidelines/

A muzzleloader is different than a cartridge gun, but many of the principles relative to the propellant are the same. The bullet is seated in the cartridge to create the pressure necessary to propel the bullet. A bullet in a muzzleloader needs to be compressed against the powder. The base of the bullet, or sabot needs to expand to hold the building pressure which propels the bullet. Imagine you placed a bullet 1 inch ahead of the case in a cartridge gun. The bullet most likely would not exit the barrel. This same principle works in a muzzleloader. Loose fitting bullets, like the typical Powerbelts, may be convenient to load, but lack sufficient compression to assure consistent ignition or accuracy.

Because there are no standards in muzzleloading barrels, the diameters vary between all manufacturers and at times within the same manufacturer. A Powerbelt may fit nicely in one and slide to the bottom of another. Just the simple act of carrying your gun in the field may allow the bullet to slide forward and when compression of the powder is lost the result is a misfire or poor accuracy.

We recommend a quality tight fitting sabot for the most consistent accuracy and ignition.

Last edited by Idaholewis; 10/08/19.

“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown
Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14186332 10/08/19
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I had similar partial ignition on a cold range session and I'm done with it also.
Granted my original DISC is not the ideal setup, it had worked fine in warm temps.
December 25 degrees checking zero before season, giving my uncle some loading instruction, 2" fresh snow.
I was able to follow the tracks of the skipping sabot and did find one bullet of the 5 or so misfires.
I have a feeling it was due to the temp and sabot fit of the Hornady's, maybe CCI standard 209 primers also.

Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14186337 10/08/19
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Idaholewis Offline
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I FULLY DISAGREE with Western Powders No. 5 (Loose Bullet with inadequate seal or Compression)

They make it sound like a Tight fitting Bullet, or Sabot is NEEDED For Accuracy, BULLSH&T!!! Tell that to the World Champions that Shoot “Land Riding” Paper Patch Bullets and WIN Championship Shoots, Set Records, Etc. Etc. My most accurate loads are “Land Riding” Bullets, They slide down the Bore with Virtually no effort

I believe Western Powders say’s that CRAP to cover their @ss if Theirs BH209 Fails to ignite, They can tell you “We told you so” Either that or they really are IGNORANT! Their BH209 Requires a Tight SEAL, Compression on the Powder in order to Reliably ignite it. If you are doing less and getting away with it that’s GREAT! But when it fails, you were Warned!

Here is an example of me Loading 1 of my “Land Rider” Target Bullets, Note how EASILY this Bullet goes down my Bore. I was shooting steel here this Day at 600 Yards with this Load



“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown
Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: JBhunter45] #14186405 10/08/19
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Originally Posted by JBhunter45
I had similar partial ignition on a cold range session and I'm done with it also.
Granted my original DISC is not the ideal setup, it had worked fine in warm temps.
December 25 degrees checking zero before season, giving my uncle some loading instruction, 2" fresh snow.
I was able to follow the tracks of the skipping sabot and did find one bullet of the 5 or so misfires.
I have a feeling it was due to the temp and sabot fit of the Hornady's, maybe CCI standard 209 primers also.


I meant to mention “Partial ignition” as well, BH209 WILL MOST DEFINITELY Start to ignite, and Stop! I sent Bullets to a Friend in Tennessee to Shoot in his new Knight Mountaineer, His Bore is tighter than mine, i sized the Bullets to .451-.452? Anyway they ended up loading Tighter than he felt Comfortable with, But he stil Shot Groups 1 Day while he was Waiting for his Swinglock Sizer die. He was using Oversize 1/8” Wool Felt Wads (.50 Cal Wads in his .450 Bore) The Bullets went down HARD,

After shooting, He called me and told me about a Couple of REALLY ODD things he had happen, With the Above Oversize Wool felt Wads his first Shot had Barely any Felt Recoil to it? Of course it Sounded Odd as well? The Bullet had Cleared the Barrel, But did NOT even make it to the Target, He had this happen at least 2 Different Times, SO the powder charge was DEFINITELY igniting, but also Stopping??? The only thing i can figure here is the LOSS of Pressure Through the Wool Wad, and around/Through the Rifling Grooves, it HAD TO BE THIS, Because when he Switched over to TIGHT Vegetable Fibre Wads the Problem COMPLETELY went away! He was able to Shoot Several Groups without a Hitch, But Wool Felt Wads was a NO GO!


“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown
Re: Blackhorn 209?? [Re: Judman] #14186576 10/08/19
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Pappy nailed this down earlier in the thread.

BH209 was designed for sabot/bullet or Powerbelt shooting in .50 inlines.
It is just that simple.
Western Powders does not offer load recommendations for .45's.

Correct and clean plugs with correct dimensions, hot 209 primers and tight fitting sabots/Powerbelts and never a problem here regardless of temperatures or weather conditions.

The ease of clean up, not needing to swab between shots and the ability to leave a charge in a barrel for a LONG time makes it worth using. You just have to use it as designed by Western.


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