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I have a semi 17 hmr I think that would be more than ideal for putting down a intruder. I think I would rather be shot with a 22 then a 17.


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Bristoe Offline OP
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Originally Posted by joken2

Better than nothing and/or it's all you've got available at the moment, yes, but unless it's a hit to the central nervous system or critical joint serious and painful enough to quickly immobilize an aggressor, I'd have reservations that a .22 rim-fire should be counted on to effectively end an attack, especially if the aggressor is drugged up as is often the case nowadays.

While they may well bleed-out and die soon from multiple bullet wounds, a mortally wounded hyped-up druggie aggressor could still do a lot of harm before they succumb and they could be fighting for their life every bit as hard as you.






I don't know about that. .22 solids are known for having a bad habit of bouncing around a lot when they enter a chest cavity. They go in here,..glance off a rib then go spinning over there,...zig zagging their way around until their energy is spent.

Surgeons don't like to deal with .22 gunshot victims because the damage is in so many places. They make a mess.

Big, heavy bullets just bore a hole. Everything is in one location. Those little .22 caliber solid point needles draw a geometric mural on a person's interior when they're given the velocity that an 18" barrel produces.

From what I've heard,...they go in, but have a hard time finding their way out,...although they explore many avenues.

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Yeah.............wouldn't count on that aspect.

Sorta seems like more old wives tale than fact.


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Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Yeah.............wouldn't count on that aspect.

Sorta seems like more old wives tale than fact.


My wife is an old wife nurse. Gunshot wounds find their way to her occasionally.

She doesn't know much about firearms but sometimes she'll come home with accounts of a shooting victim that was all messed up in many places from one shot.

In the past I'm mentioned to her that it was probably a .22.

More than once she has learned of the particulars and came home to tell me,.."You were right!"

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Originally Posted by Bristoe
There was a case in Kentucky a few years ago,......a 92 year old man living alone on his old farm was being robbed blind by burglars. They were breaking into his house,...his outbuildings,...even stealing his cattle.

He was at home sitting in an upstairs room one day when he heard them breaking in again.

He went to the closet and got an old .22 single shot rifle,....the only firearm he owned,..loaded it then sat back down in his chair.

Eventually one of the burglars made it up to the room he was sitting in and came in the door of it.

The old man raised the.22 rifle and shot him square in the chest with it.

The burglar fell back and stumbled down the stairs. He and his companions got in the car and took off. A couple of miles down the road they stopped to remove his dead body from the car.

The police showed up and took the man's .22 rifle from him,....no charges filed from what I heard.

The next day a local pawn shop owner stopped by his place and gave him another .22 rifle.


I hope they gave the old guy his rifle back. I hate to see a man with out some personal defense available. Sounds like it was plenty effective.

I have to go along with Jim, a PC9 with a 33 round Glock mag would make a guy think twice. Especially, if someone has confirmed that the mag is effective in that rifle.


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Strange things happen for sure.

One in a million maybe?

The fellow who taught my emt class was an old Detroit Paramedic....he has some stories too.


Just wouldn't count on any magical killing powers with a .22 is all.....for your safety.


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Jimbo, I don't think there is a magic killing power with any cartridge. But I believe Bristoe is talking about having something vs having nothing.


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Yes....certainly.

I would just caution against about trying to make his choice seem more effective by touting the "pinball" effect of 22 ammo.


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Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho
Not to start an argument but let's define needs for self defense.

Dying is not necessarily stopping. A man can be killed with an ice pick but the pick wielder might end up on the next slab over at the morgue.

Self defense is about stopping the threat. If the guy dies that's a good outcome but secondary to stopping.

This!

I get it about .22's and never want to be shot with one, but still believe a 9, 357, 45, 5.56, 12ga would all be a better stopper.

Usually when a bad guy tries to invade a good guy's domicile, they've already smoked, shot-up, drank, or popped their courage.

That appears to change things, given the number of those amped up neer-do-wells who take a bunch of good hits and still keep on keepin' on until the good guy is dead. Then they die too.


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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It would be cool to see some data on caliber per murder.

All I can find is second hand heard it from a friend stuff.....


Its oft repeated though...."22lr kills more people than all other calibers combined"....


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Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad

Its oft repeated though...."22lr kills more people than all other calibers combined"....

Likely a factor of being more commonly owned than any other caliber firearm. Even people who aren't particularly into guns often have a .22 laying around.

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As much as anything, it's about being able to place shots where you want them to go.

.22 rifles are pretty much at the apex of firearms that are capable of placing shots where you want them to go.

A surgically placed 40 grain bullet at 1250 fps is going to be effective.

3-40 grains bullets placed with surgical precision at 30' in the space of 1 second is game over,...and it's easy to do.

I think I was capable of doing it as a 10 year old with a .22 auto loading rifle.

I've been shooting all my life and I still have trouble doing it with a handgun.

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Been around two attempted suicides with .22s.

All I can say is open your mouth......teeth greatly reduce a .22s killing power.


TRH....yes. makes sense.

I just cant find any actual data. A gander over to the cdc did not reveal what I wanted.


Are we talking suicids or homicides?

Interesting....


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I say shoot 'em in the dick so if they live they won't be able to reprooduce.

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As I recall, Evan Marshall wrote a book like you are looking for, but it's been a few years, and ammo has gotten better since then but you will at least get an idea.

https://www.amazon.com/Stopping-Power-Practical-Analysis-Ammunition/dp/158160128X


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Bella Twin

Not that its a high percentage way to go but aways looking for a chance to bring up the Bella Twin story ^ ..

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Originally Posted by Oldman3
Originally Posted by 12344mag
Never go full semi auto Bristoe.

For the record I sure as hell don't want to be standing in front of any 22lr as it's wizzin' through the air, If it don't kill you it's still gonna hurt like hell!


As my son likes to say, "If you don't think little bitty holes hurt...... get a splinter in your finger!"

And I'll add, a lot of little bitty holes hurts worser!

(for the proper english crowd, there's bad, worse, worser, and then worst.)


I got shot in the leg with a .22 lr when I was a kid. Hurt like heck!!!


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Originally Posted by Bristoe
think I was capable of doing it as a 10 year old with a .22 auto loading rifle.

Don't be so sure. Cops practice a lot, I would too with free ammo. They chew up the center of the target pretty consistently in qualifying. Yet in the real world with a human target ready to fight back they miss painfully easy shots. That and I'd avoid shooting another human if I possibly could. But if I need to use deadly force I want it massive and overwhelming, instantly decisive.


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.
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It would ruin some [bleep] day, I have a 1100 with mag extension. It will put a lot of .22 balls in the air at once.

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The two biggest issues I see are

1) ammo- As mentioned, CCI is probably just as reliable as any centerfire stuff out there, but bulk ammo leaves something to be desired

And

2) clearing jams- Frankly, there isn’t much space to clear a jam in a 22 semiauto, and sometimes, you gotta break out the pocket knife. Not a problem at the range or in the field, but not something you wanna do in the dark with your life at risk.

A 20 gauge loaded with buckshot solves both of these issues, for the most part.

https://www.sgammo.com/product/20-g...mber-1-buck-shot-1345-fps-rio-ammo-rb209


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