Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Winchester StaBall 6.5

I just ordered a couple of pounds of the new StaBall 6.5 powder from Powder Valley. It has some impressive numbers for the 6.5 CM, 7-08 and similar, even good 375 H&H numbers.

I can't find any burn rate charts showing how it fits into the line up.

Does anyone know?

DF

I saw they show 3,050fps with a 24" 7mm-08 and the 139 Hornady Interlock. That's rolling.....

Yeah, I saw that, too. Good numbers with the 6.5 CM, as well.

And reportedly temp stable with anti copper fouling properties.

I'm using Big Game in my 7-08; this one may out perform that one, which is saying something. Hope accuracy is as good.

I'm guessing burn rate is probably somewhere between Varget and BG, which is a pretty wide window. (Inquiring minds want to know)...
Loony minds, that is...

I got Powder Valley to throw in a can of Vv n-150, Nosler accuracy powder for 180's in the 338-06. I had n-140 and n-160, no n-150. Go figure.
Have 180 Weldcore to try, reportedly a very accurate bullet. 180 Combined Technology has been ordered (essentially a NBT with black coating and silver tip). Those were very accurate in a 338-284 I once had.

DF

Pretty tough to beat the price on the stuff too.. Might have to get me some of it. i have a 7-08 begging for some load work.

Their data sounds almost too good to be true.

I'm gonna try it. Chrono will tell the story as will the target. It could end up the go to powder for the Creed and 7-08. I'm not sure if Pharmseller will drop BG for StaBall, but we'll see...

If it's gonna beat out BG in the 7-08, it better perform as advertised.

DF

This is a Winchester powder. Be prepared for them to drop it like so many others in the past.

Higher velocity doesn't = accuracy. I'll take accuracy every time.

Discontinued it may become, but I will bet there will never be a shortage like the ADI powders that Hodgdon's Sells.

Maybe it is accurate and fast.

Won't take long to find out.

DF

Can't wait to hear!!!!

Some of the 7-08 speeds Hodgdon is posting push the 7RM. Of course a reloader can always out run a small block 7-08 with a big block 7RM....

Displacement matters.

But 120's at 3,200 fps,. 139's at 3K are definitely 7RM class. I notice that they're running StaBall at 59K psi, whereas other powders are typically around 50K or less for the 7-08. They do run 4451 at 58K. And, they're using Rem 9 1/2, mag primers, but that may be because its a ball powder.

Ya reckon StaBall has such a smooth pressure curve that they can add the extra pressure without issue. Or, is this just another way to sell a new powder.

This is an interesting development, for sure.

DF

I should have some at my door by Thursday. I’ll be trying it in the 7-08 mostly. The numbers look impressive for 120 - 175 gr bullets. Hopefully I can find some accurate loads.

Anxiously watching this..........

DUH !

3500 or 4000 FPS is useless unless it’s accurate enuff for your purposes.

Jerry

A perfect example of this is H100V. Worst powder I've ever experienced for accuracy.

I'm a lover of loading rifle ammo on a Dillon 550. Even if velocity remains the same, a Temp-insensitive ball power is of great interest to me.

Depends on the round. Works great in my .257R, best for speed and great accuracy. Now, temp stability is not it's strong point from what I've read. Where I hunt, that's not a big deal.

COAL is too long for a SA, is in a LA 700 with Brux barrel. Check the speed. Not bad for a Roberts.

DF

I believe you're making the mistake of directly comparing the numbers for PSI and CUP.

According to a certain regression plot (by Denton Bramwell) 50,000 CUP correlates to about 58,000 PSI.

It’s all in the same Hodgdon data site. Don’t remember them saying CUP or whatever. I was assuming equivalency.

You maybe right.

DF

looks to be $2/pound more than the other ball powders?

Or are you comparing the price to stick powders?

They show both units in the 7mm08 data. It varies by powder.

The max loads that they show for a Creed, are moderate loads for Reloder 26. Another option, but nothing special, in my opinion. Time will tell.

It would be nice to have another temp stable ball powder available. Several are very good, as is. I always liked WW760 but, in a 30-06 load I had it lost about 120fps around 32 degrees. Of course, one just had to work up a "winter load" as well as a "hot summer load"...its all fun!

Yeah, I was comparing it to stick powder prices.

You are correct; I wasn't paying good enough attention.

When you wrote that, I knew you were right, based on your past performance...

DF

Given that proportion, could one multiply CUP x 1.16 to get into the psi ballpark?

DF

It's not just a constant of proportionality. There's an offset term as well.

PSI = -17902 + 1.51586*CUP

Thanks for the formula. Should have known it wouldn’t have been that simple.

DF

Of course that’s correct but to put it in an
Elementary Equation for US laymen.......

CUP X 1.51586 minus 17902 = PSI

Note: Mr Denton states that is for rifles and it’s not the same for handguns (pistols).

Now, don’t ask me why/how !

Jerry

What I find interesting is 140 gr. bullet out of the 7-08 at 2,976 fps without a compressed load and below 60K psi. (59,300 psi).

That's pushing near 3K speed with a 140 out of a 7-08.

I'm using 48.8 gr. RL-17 to push a 140 Hunting VLD out of my 6.5-284 at 3K fps. I know the larger 7mm bore will shoot the same wt. bullet faster due to greater total surface area on the bullet for greater net energy at the same psi. But the 284 case has near '06 powder capacity vs. the 7-08 with .308 powder capacity.

I'm currently shooting 140 gr. Hunting VLD's out of my 7-08 with BG, just not at 3K. Now if this new stuff shoots as accurate as BG....

DF

Thanks for translating the professor's formula into simple Loony terms that a Redneck can understand...

DF

Honestly, how are they different?

To you, no difference....

Maybe a little easier to understand with the X rather than the dot for multiplication.

That is for us who count on our fingers, pull off our shoes to toe count for higher math...

DF

Some years ago I attempted to understand the differences between fps and cup. My conclusion was they both measure pressure but are as different as torque and horsepower. Personally I would not trust the above formula to be safely accurate across the various cartridge configurations.

Jim

Have you read Denton's paper that went along with the formula?

mathman

Sir, it was around 2004-05 when I attempted to understand them. That understanding has carried over to today. I don't specifically recall what nor whom I may have read. I do remember that various formulas were proposed and some of their authors quite vigorously defended them. None of these, however, fully agreed with nor gave the same numbers as the others. I'd not argue that Denton's paper is absolutely inaccurate. As I said, "Personally, I would not trust the above formula to be safely accurate across the various cartridge configurations." Admittedly after 80 years of use my rememberer and recaller don't always agree.

If the powder companies portray a willingness to agree with his formula then perhaps I could be more trusting.

Jim

Just got a reply from Winchester on StaBALL 6.5 via Email that says "This powder will be similar to H-4350".


Just waiting to see what other new powders come along and when there is a new powder burn rate chart published.

Hope that helped.

Similar in what way? We need more context.

Doesn't seem like much of a mystery to me when reading that. Similar in burn rate, load data, and temp insensitivity would be likely. What else could they possibly be talking about?

In the 708 with 150gr. bullets H4350 and StaBall aren't even close in max. load or vel.

Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam.
C.O.L. Grs.
Vel. (ft/s)
Pressure
Grs.
Vel. (ft/s)
Pressure
Winchester StaBALL 6.5 .284" 2.800" 43.6 2,628 43,100 PSI 48.5 2,908 58,900 PSI
Hodgdon H4350 .284" 2.800" 42.0 2,549 40,600 CUP 45.4 2,724 51,500 CUP

JG,

In the 7-08, Hodgdon data, there is a big jump in performance with a favorite bullet of mine and yours, the NBT 120 gr.

StaBALL shoots that one at a max reported 3,201 fps, vs. the max with H-4350, 3,039 fps. That's an impressive jump.

With 140's it's 2,976 vs. 2,868, not as big a spread, but still impressive. With the 140 gr. the H-4350 load is comprssed, the StaBall load is not compressed.

So, one may postulate that if the burn rate is similar, StaBALL could be a tad denser, thus not having to compress the top 140 gr. load vs. H-4350.

I should be getting a couple of pounds in pretty soon. I'm anxious to see what it will do.

DF

Nrut,

Apparently you, like many, do not know the difference in PSI and CUP.

Also, "similar" does NOT mean "exactly the same."

A more general comment: So far there's been the typical Campfire discussion about something nobody had even seen yet, much less tried. But several people already think they know everything about it--another Campfire tradition.

The description made me think it will be something like H450, but with better temperature tolerance. I never used H450 for anything myself even though it crossed my mind a time or two, but I remember a few guys being pretty unhappy about its departure from the lineup.

I'm guilty.

I know nothing about it, have never had a can in my posession. Hopefully that's gonna change in a few days.

I am very interested, it looks good on paper. All I can do until actually trying it, is research known info and summarize current thinking.

DF

You know what happens when we assume.

I'd guess they meant burn rate, but that's a guess because Swede65 didn't tell us in what context Winchester said it's similar to H4350. Maybe it's just similar in temp sensitivity, but different burn rate? Or maybe the burn rate is the same but the temp sensitivity is different? I'm certainly not willing to assume the load data is similar. Are you? We need more info for that statement to be useful.

I said: "In the 708 with 150gr. bullets H4350 and StaBall aren't even close in max. load or vel."

I don't see where I said anything about pressure ( PSI or CUP) at all, and that wasn't the jest of my post..
Looking at the pressures now I see the H4350 is running over 50,000 CUP (51,500 CUP) which is up there..
Most CUP pressure tested loads I see in manuals are 50,000 CUP or under..
Most PSI pressure tested loads are 60,000 PSI and under with some in the 62-63 range..
The Hodgdon StaBall load for the 708/150gr bullet is under 60,000 CUP
And yes I know there is a difference between PSI and CUP..

As far as your comment: "simular" does NOT mean "exactly the same"!
I understand that, so my question to you is what was the Winchester rep meaning when he told Swed65 that "this powder will be similar to H4350" ??
So my question to you, in what way do "you" see the similarity between these two powders?
And have you talked to the Winchester rep or Hodgdon rep about StaBall?
Going by Hodgdon Data they aren't similar in vel. and grains of powder for max. loads..

Yawn.

And to think I was trying to be nice in my reply above ..

You shouldn't jest, if you're trying to be nice.

Just looked up the definition of "jest"..
For some reason I thought there was two meanings for the word "jest" depending on how it was used in a sentence ..
Apparently not..
I should have used the word "crux" instead..

Gist dude, Gist.

Similar in burn rate and where it would fall approximately on the chart. If you want more detailed information, go to the Winchester website and fill out a information request with what you want to know. The technical group/ tech got back to me in less than 24 hours.
Just ask them what you want to know.

Thank you for clarifying that about burn rate Swede. Good to know.

For the win...

I almost miss the days when if you had H4831 and H4350 you were covered for all the medium to magnum cartridges. Almost too many choices now. And the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence syndrome or the powder burns brighter phenomena and this can lead to a big inventory of powders.
Just when I was trying to cut down on components and simplify my reloading things get more complicated.

Interesting video. I wish he would have cooled and heated the gun along with the ammo, but the results were interesting.

I might have to pick up a pound or two to test out in my 7-08 and 7-08AI.

I will be trying it. Numbers look very good.

My thoughts exactly. And in theory one powder may change/adjust its temp faster vs another powder when temps swing quickly (i.e. from 32 degrees to 140 + in the chamber).

I did some testing today with StaBALL 6.5 in the 7mm-08. I chose the 7mm-08 to start with because the velocity’s looked crazy fast. I came up way short on speed with all bullets tried and hit presser with others before max. I was using different components so I understand that things will change but I’ll be interested in seeing other people’s results. I’ll be posting results soon in the reloading section.

Its been years but stable was what I called TAC. I may not remember correctly though.

Those that need ball to load on Dillon should be aware I've run a lot of Varget and RL15 and fair amounts of N540 on Dillon with never an issue and winning matches as we went...

Have mentioned this before, not just here but in my chapter on powder/temperature in GUN GACK II, but temp-stability depends to a certain extent on the specific cartridge/bullet combo--and whether the temperature is colder or warmer. This is reduced considerably (especially in warmer temps) with powders designed and advertised to be temp-stable. But it still can vary some

TAC is very temp-stable with the right cartridge/bullet combinations, especially .223/5.56 and .308/7.62x51, the rounds for which it was designed. Outside those and similar applications it isn't so temp-stable.

Have found the same thing with ancient IMR4350. In some applications (such as 300-grain bullets in the .375 H&H) it has proven very temp-resistant in my tests. In other apps not so much

The Ramshot powder I've found the most temp-stable in my tests across a pretty wide variety of cartridge/bullet combinations is Big Game. Have also found it very accurate overall, which is why it's one of my favorite powders.

One thing I have NOT found, however, is that any powder advertised as designd to be temp-stable does not perform that way--at least at colder temps. ALL powders gain some velocity (and hence pressure) at much above 70 Fahrenheit. How much they gain often depends, again, on a particular application.

Tag

LOL

I just joined this forum.

I also just got some of this Staball 6.5 powder at a Virginia gunshow yesterday.

The powder is supposed to have a burn rate of similar to IMR4350. It’s rate seems to vary from IMR4451 powder to as slow as IMR4831.
So it may be a perfect powder for 6.5mm for most medium capacity cartridges. Hence the name “6.5”

I’m trying it today in one of my 6.5x55mm rifles today. I usually use one of my favorite powders RL22 with 120gr. Ballistic Tips.

In my 6.5 Swedes, RL22 has been GREAT powder and has proved to me to be very “temperature tolerant”! Virginia’s temperatures generally vary between 25 to 95+ Degrees Fahrenheit during our hunting seasons. (summer ground hogs to late season deer hunting).

I guess the “Winchester/Hodgdon” people wanted a “ball” powder with the popular slower burn rate like the 4350 powders, that was CLEAN, more Temperature insensitive, that would fill a small capacity Creedmore case. (looking for that ultimate powder for a small bore, smaller capacity case..... but STILL have a useful burn rate range, enabling it to be used in a wide variety of other cartridges.

So I expect it to be good for anything from a .243 Winchester, on up to and including a 30-06.....
(not to forget some of the medium capacity Magnum cartridge cases too.... like a 338 or 358 belted magnums, for instance...)
Anything that IMR4350 could be used for, I guess.

It’s biggest competitor could be IMR4451.
(which has also worked well for me in a variety of cartridges for me).


For those interested, I’ll report on my testing of this new Staball 6.5 powder. (of course, that will be in several cartridges, over the next six months.... when the Luray, Virginia temperatures start approaching the 90 degree PLUS mark)



Joe

Winchester powders is owned by Hodgdon in my understanding, so I’d be willing to bet a cup of coffee to a donut this new wonder powder is something else rebranded to pick up on the 6.5 craze. But I’ve been wrong before and I can prove it. Happy Trails

So how would rebranding make a powder that wasn't copper fouling reducing and temperature stable become both?

Don’t know but Hodgdon has copper fouling reducing spherical propellants like CFE223 already. Marketing can make chicken salad out of chicken schidt pretty regularly. Happy Trails

That's why I emphasized the and.

Just picked up a copy of the newest Hodgdon Annual Manual band they list the burn rate between Hybrid 100 V and VihtaVuori N550. Slower than H4350.

No testing; only “jesting”.

OR

The “gist” of the “jest” is that there has been no test.

Anyone tried this powder in 6.5x55 at commercial action loads?

I probably will, soon after the batch I ordered yesterday shows up. Have been asking at several local stores but so far none has had any, but came across a good deal on an Internet site so got out the credit card.

I bought some of this powder awhile back to try it. It worked very well on several 6.5 and .260 loads. I shot one, 1/4-inch, three-shot group at 200, with 147 ELDMs in my Creed. It is another good option, but not necessarily a game-changer, as I said before. A buddy of mine was out at my house shooting to 530 a couple of days ago. He was shooting some 153 A-tip seconds, that he got at Hornady. In one of his five-shot strings, three shots were in less than 1 1/2 inches. The other two opened up, but that is not unusual at that range and in a bit of wind.

I used the max load as per Hodgdon data for the bullets that I shot. I think (if I remember right) the velocity is around 2665 for the 153 and 2740 or so with the 147. I think that it is going to work really well as another option.

I haven't tried all these powders mentioned. I have in the past used most of the IMRs, such as 4350 and 48x5731 and all between. 4350 was my go to .308 powder for anything from 150 grain 168 grain bullets.

4831 has been my go to powder for my .270 for everything from 130 grain up to 160s.

But for smaller cases I've found a new wonder powder, RL-17. It has given me fantastic velocity with 115 grain bullets in my 2 ..25 calibers, .250 Savage and .257 AI. I've read and heard about its amazing performance in .243s, 6mm Remingtons, and.308s. Now that I have a 7x57 I'm wondering how it will perform in that. But getting back to the OP question, I've heard from more than a few that RL-17 is very temperature stabil in a lot of cartridges. Has anybody else heard this?

I've had great results from R17 with several rounds also. I have to seat my bullets pretty deep in this new Creedmoor, so I can get enough R26 etc in it to mess with. Now I'm playing with this StaBall/110 HH combo. If I can pick the right primer for my cases...Fed215 is almost "too big" in Nosler cases and Win LRMs are same in Hornady cases....I'm going back to BR2s....sheesh.

Just tried it in one of my 6.5X55s.... this one is a Model 70 Featherweight, 22” barrel.

So far it’s outstanding powder as far as accuracy.

On a cold 37 degree day, a 43grs. and a 44grs. charges with a Hornady 129grs. SST, proved to be vary accurate at 50 yards. 4 shot groups with either charge punch big ragged holes measuring 1/4” to 3/8” in size. For me that’s good!

It seemed to compare burn rate/pressure wise to IMR4831.

IMR4350 (44grs.) gave me max pressure signs (in this Model 70 Rifle), and 3/4” Groups.
But 44grs. of STABALL gave me considerably tighter groups and “normal” high pressure signs (no cratering, and reasonable case web expansion).

The best part is that the POIs (Point Of Impact) were all the same!

With the same bullet with IMR4831 powder (46grs. charge), the POI was the same at 50 yards as the other loads tried with IMR 4350 and STABLL powder.
But that 46grs. charge of IMR4831 powder proved to me to be a maximum charge in my Model 70.

The big surprise that day (other than the great accuracy and assumed velocities and reasonable pressures with this STABALL 6.5 powder), was the bad performance with a can of IMR4955 powder.

My research of that powder and also using the burn rate charts made that powder appear to me to be comparable to H4831 powder.
But the experiments the other day suggested that powder is also comparable to IMR4831.

So unless I have a bad lot of that stuff, that is too fast.... I’m going to treat it more like IMR4831 powder and NOT the slower H4831 powder.

So to date....
I suggest to all... BE CAREFUL using the IMR4955 powder in the 6.5X55mm! It seems to be faster than what the burn rate charts and the Hodgdon load data suggest.

Tomorrow I plan on doing more testing with the IMR4955, and STABALL 6.5 powders.

Both STABALL and IMR4955 show good accuracies.

But without a doubt.... so far the STABALL powder seems to be everything they say it is!

It almost seems too good to be true in my 6.5X55 Model 70.
I look forward to trying it in my other 6.5X55 rifles, in addition to a bunch of other rifles of mine.
AND I will report back about my experience with this great (so far), powder.



Joe

So,what did your chronograph say?

Hodgdon manuals and data switches back and forth between CUP and PSI frequently depending on which system was in use when data was collected.

Found one pound today, along with some H4350 and MR2000, all of which I had struck out on elsewhere.

The Hodgdon data shows workable velocities in my 6CM with most bullets even at starting levels, a good thing I think.

I’m eager for load data for the 257 Roberts with this powder. I went to the range yesterday with some 06 loads with StaBall and was pleased with preliminary results. Anyone with reliable Roberts data please post it

Would like to see that myself.

It'll have to perform to beat H-100V in the Roberts with 100's. Mine shoots the 100 TTSX at 3,266 into sub inch groups. That's pushing 25-06 data. And with no pressure signs. StaBALL should be more temp stable than H-100V.

DF

Great shooting with that Bob! I've got staball and I'm wanting to try it in the 250 Savage and looking for some load data.

Load data for StaBALL is pretty close to H-4350. I'm wondering if one used that data, starting loads, working up with a Chrono.

DF

StayBall is slower than H4350.

I'm developing loads with it in a couple 22 Creeds, and a couple 6 Creeds.

If it's slower, then won't H-4350 data be safe as a start?

Look forward to your results.

DF

That'll work.

Temp sensitivity testing will be a work in progress. Summer should get here sometime in August..;)

If you look at published Hodgdon data where StaBALL and H-4350 are both used, the load data is pretty close to the same. Examples are 6.5 CM and 7-08.

DF

Dirtfarmer,

Hell, I got 3250+ with IMR4350 and 100-grain bullets in the .257 Roberts over 30 years ago, with ZERO pressure signs!

Just had to throw that in. :-)

If this has been brought up I apologize for repeating it, but the April Handloader has an article on StaBALL 6.5 by Rob Behr. In it he claims it is slower than H4350 and faster than H4831 and near Hybrid 100V.

Well that's almost 3,266 fps...

257 R is indeed a great round. And, as I think you've written, a 100 gr. bullet is probably optimal.

DF

48 gr H-100V with the 100 TTSX topped 3,300 fps, but at the cost of some accuracy. And still with no pressure signs.

47 gr seemed to be the magic load and the one I went with.

LA 700 with 24” Brux. Long action allows longer COAL and slightly more case capacity. But these are not compressed loads to begin with, so not an issue.

DF

DF,

It probably was just about 3266 fps--since the load was chronographed with one of those old-fashioned light-screen models, place 15 feet from the muzzle! (Also got around 3300 with 100-grain Hornady Interlocks using the same powder, but they don't result in as much pressure.)

Of course, I am pretty sure those loads exceeded today's +P data!

Hi!


Just an update on my experience with STABALL 6.5

To date, I’ve tried it in the 8X57, 30-06, 6.5X55, .308 Winchester.


From my experiments: This powder definitely seems to have a burn rate closer to IMR4831, than to IMR4350. (in my rifles that I tested it in, it seemed to have a burn rate just like IMR4831)

However, my suggestion is to follow the advice of the manuals, and treat it like IMR4350..... but back off about 5 or 10 percent and start from there.


I did NOT chronograph the loads but the power of the loads seemed to be comparable to my hunting loads using IMR4831, IMR4350, RL-19, RL-22, and finally IMR 4955.

BUT in most cases, I got the best accuracies with this new powder. (STABALL6.5 Powder)

6.5X55 Model 70: 43 grs. STABALL best accuracy!
Roughly 1/4” to 3/8” groups at 50 yards using Hornady SST 129 grs.

BTW..... a 46 grs. charge was MY maximum pressure load.


308 Winchester in a Marlin XS7 Rifle (a great Rifle BTW....! I love every one that I own!)
Using a 165grs. PSP BT bullet (I believe a pulled PPU bullet), I used a charge of 52grs. charge, gave me a nice tight 5/8” group at 50 yards.
It was NOT a “high” pressure load in my rifle.
Maybe about a 2650 FPS? A good hunting load.


30-06 in a Savage M110 Rifle: using a Speer 150 grs. PSP Hotcore bullet (my “go to” deer bullet in most of my 30 caliber rifles)..... with a charge of STABALL of: 60grs. gave me a near max load in that Savage rifle. It was the most accurate load tested that day. (about 45 Fahrenheit). Groups of about 3/4” to 1” groups at 50 yards.



8X57mm Rifle: A Yugoslavian M98 ( a “Butchered” or “Beater” job..... call it someone’s version of a Sporter. Too bad.... you don’t find many of those around!)
Treating it’s loads using Speer 150 grs. PSP and Hornady 150 grs. PSP bullets, like the similar IMR 4831 powder.... the STABALL powder generally performed at least as accurate as the IMR4831 loads, and generally the best accurate loads.
I tried charge weights of STABALL of: 55 grs., 56 grs., 57 grs., and finally 58 grs., with the 150 grs. Bullets.
ALL those loads proved to be more accurate than my hunting load using IMR 4064 powder (48
I’m guessing the velocities to be between 2500 FPS. to maybe about 2700 FPS. or so....).
All usable loads and accurate.
Pressures? Reasonably high... higher than US factory loads, but not quite max.
Sub inch groups at 50 yards.


But all this is to show how this new STABALL powder was not only comparable to the burn rate of IMR4831 (and even IMR 4955), but also just as accurate also. In fact in most cases, I’d say that STABALL powder over all gave me the most accurate loads tested, with any of those other powders.

So I plan on stocking up on more of this powder!
It really seems to be one of the best!
But I’m not going to stop using IMR 4831 or RL-22 powders, either.
They have always have been among my most favorite powders in many of my rifles.

It is obvious that I am NOT a great shot, which is one reason why I don’t shoot much at 100 or 200 yards. Lazy? Yeah.... I guess so. But generally I am satisfied with my accuracy tests at 50 yards.
If I need tp do it, then I test at 100 yards and sometimes at 200 yards. But generally it’s not necessary.
It IS necessary for me to test/sight in my rifles, right before Big Game season. In those situations, then I do shoot at 100 yards.

So yeah.... I’m lazy!



So for all interested, I suggest to try a pound of this STABALL and give it a try in your rifle, if it’s burn rate in appropriate in your rifle’s caliber.
It seems to be (so far....), everything they say it is.


Having a clean burning powder that is temperature tolerant, that compacts easily in a small case, with a burn rate similar to IMR 4350 to IMR 4831, is a VERY useable powder.
It not only seems to work well in smaller cartridge cases like the 243/308, but seems to work in other cases in size from 7X57 and 8X57 Mausers, but also those as large as the 270/30-06 case size too.

Eventually I’ll try it in the larger belted magnum cases too.
It should work in my 308 and 358 Norma Magnum rifles as well as in a 338 Win mag that I also have somewhere.
I’d guess that it would work well in the WSM cases too. (maybe also in the 300 Winchester)
It also may work well in a 375 H&H Magnum.



So I have my work cut out for me this year!




“Joe”

I've been testing it in 6.5 Creed, and 270 Win. Very small groups, and single digit SD numbers all around. Very, very consistently accurate loads, all the way from start to about 1.5-2 grains over book max. Not a velocity king like R26 or R17, but much better groups in those 2 guns. Both shot well under 1/2" at 100 yards. Definitely going to try it in my .338 WM next.