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Cain killed Abel, but Cane's carbohydrate diet caused obesity, tooth decay, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, dementia, and an early death.

Cain had a higher headcount.

The story of the domesticated plants that conquered the world at the expense of your health.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=%27%27guns+germs+and+steel


There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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I have a friend who, 11 months ago, weighed 326 lbs. He was hospitalized because his blood pressure was so high he could stroke out at any moment. His A1c was 13! On release from the hospital he immediately went on the Keto diet. He is now down to 236 lbs (he's 6'2") and his A1c is now 4.8 (normal), although he still takes 1000mg of Metformin daily. His diet is now very Keto---eggs, bacon, meats of all kind and zero sugar and very low carbs. It saved his life. He says "sugar is death".

Last edited by Tarquin; 11/06/19.

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Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
... I do have major concerns about the quality of our food in this country and the diets of the general population.
Much of those concerns include our meat and dairy industry.


I am not too concerned about todays quality of meats and dairy if consumed in moderation.

Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
.As I stated in the original post,I'm not sure meat in and of itself is harmful. ...
..I think the problems lie more in the amount of animal products and the quality of animal products we consume now.


even the best quality meats are not good for a person if they are in a clogged bowel , where it putrifies and the body auto-intoxicates.
waste elimination is important as is nutrition...hence fruit /veg fibre is important for keeping regular, ..Fibre is also important for PRE-biotics.
prebiotics feed good gut bacteria....and PRO-biotic foods [that already have live bacteria content] also contribute to the health
of ones bacteria ecosystem of the gut.

The other important thing is ENZYMES in food, cooking food [above a certain temp.] destroys beneficial enzymes
in meat ,dairy, fruit and veg.
Enzymes break down food and make digestion much easier , which means less workload for the body when digesting.

Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
best to learn all they can about diet and nutrition. ..
I do believe it is the single most important thing we can do for our health and longevity.


id put mental health above diet...since many peoples poor diets and lifestyles come from their attitude/mental health issues.
lE; lack of interest or motivation to improve their quality of life through exercise and change of diet.

I mean you could very well educate a person on nutrition and lifestyle, but it takes an attitude shift-change,
yet some will never change their ways that are leading to their own misery and premature death...hence why
I see it as an underlying mental health issue.

Also, too many folk settle for treating the symptoms of their health problems, without addressing the root cause.

****

had a SIL that went for elective surgery , but the specialist would not operate till she lost some weight,
to get her into the heathy weight range, he wanted her to loose only about 15 lbs in six months IIRC.

I told her to stop fretting, .since her quality of diet was very good, and (to me) her problem was obvious >
.. she was eating too much and not exercising enough.....I suggested a very simple no fuss formula,
= eat a little less and exercise a little more.

[but that probably sounded like a lot for someone in a lifestyle habit of ..loving their food and no exercise]

well, she lost well above her target in far less time ...she lost 30 lbs in 3 months... simply by cutting some calories
and going for a 1hr brisk walk each day....she thought something like that was going to be impossible,
that is until she actually pulled her finger out , changed her attitude, applied herself....and then surprised herself.

I honestly believe her mind could only see a mountain when looking at a molehill.
I think some can also spend too much time looking at the problem while ignoring the solution.






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I'm on a budget, my diet is very predictable. Each week I consume approximately

50 corn tortillas,
6 eggs
12 handfuls grated cheese,
6 pints cherry tomatoes,
all of the above microwaved.

42oz raw oatmeal,
42 oz granola-type cereal
5 oranges
3 gallons of whole milk
1.5 L merlot wine.
Lots of green tea.
2 large McDonald's coffees (weekends)

I do worry I'm consuming too much dairy (milk and cheese).


"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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No. My daughter was vegan for a while and had all sorts of health problems. She ended up with an eating disorder. Since she went back to a normal diet, she is feeling much better.

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Originally Posted by Starman
Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
... I do have major concerns about the quality of our food in this country and the diets of the general population.
Much of those concerns include our meat and dairy industry.


I am not too concerned about todays quality of meats and dairy if consumed in moderation.

Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
.As I stated in the original post,I'm not sure meat in and of itself is harmful. ...
..I think the problems lie more in the amount of animal products and the quality of animal products we consume now.


even the best quality meats are not good for a person if they are in a clogged bowel , where it putrifies and the body auto-intoxicates.
waste elimination is important as is nutrition...hence fruit /veg fibre is important for keeping regular, ..Fibre is also important for PRE-biotics.
prebiotics feed good gut bacteria....and PRO-biotic foods [that already have live bacteria content] also contribute to the health
of ones bacteria ecosystem of the gut.

The other important thing is ENZYMES in food, cooking food [above a certain temp.] destroys beneficial enzymes
in meat ,dairy, fruit and veg.
Enzymes break down food and make digestion much easier , which means less workload for the body when digesting.

Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
best to learn all they can about diet and nutrition. ..
I do believe it is the single most important thing we can do for our health and longevity.


id put mental health above diet...since many peoples poor diets and lifestyles come from their attitude/mental health issues.
lE; lack of interest or motivation to improve their quality of life through exercise and change of diet.

I mean you could very well educate a person on nutrition and lifestyle, but it takes an attitude shift-change,
yet some will never change their ways that are leading to their own misery and premature death...hence why
I see it as an underlying mental health issue.

Also, too many folk settle for treating the symptoms of their health problems, without addressing the root cause.

****

had a SIL that went for elective surgery , but the specialist would not operate till she lost some weight,
to get her into the heathy weight range, he wanted her to loose only about 15 lbs in six months IIRC.

I told her to stop fretting, .since her quality of diet was very good, and (to me) her problem was obvious >
.. she was eating too much and not exercising enough.....I suggested a very simple no fuss formula,
= eat a little less and exercise a little more.

[but that probably sounded like a lot for someone in a lifestyle habit of ..loving their food and no exercise]

well, she lost well above her target in far less time ...she lost 30 lbs in 3 months... simply by cutting some calories
and going for a 1hr brisk walk each day....she thought something like that was going to be impossible,
that is until she actually pulled her finger out , changed her attitude, applied herself....and then surprised herself.

I honestly believe her mind could only see a mountain when looking at a molehill.
I think some can also spend too much time looking at the problem while ignoring the solution.





Wow! Just wow!


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Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
How do you dismiss all these other studies as cherry picked?



I like the taste of blood............and milk............

I think I'll follow that high fat Masai diet for a while and see what happens.

Think you could drain a couple of your beeves for me every few days?

Nah, I got a better idea, I'll just sneak out into some of the pastures around here at night and siphon off a quart or two.


Geno


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

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Glad I already ate!


I am MAGA.
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First best way to make a vegan healthy it's a learn when to shut their mouths around redneck farmers and hunting types

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Do you know how to determine if someone is a vegan?

Wait 10 seconds - they'll tell you.


Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Looks like RH doesn't want to answer the question about the vegan documentary What the Health? I suspect it is because he clings to it, as so many do, as the gospel. Whether he clings to it or not, its assertions are in line with mainstream vegan mentality. Since he has avoided posting links to any of the "science" that he has bought into, we'll assume that it's the same as that in What The Health.

I Googled "What The Health Documentary" Half the first page hits debunked the junk that is mainstream vegan "science."

This does a good job of calling BS on it. https://www.vox.com/science-and-hea...the-health-documentary-review-vegan-diet

This does as well.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...ood-science-in-the-movie-what-the-health

This from Wiki:

The documentary has drawn criticism from many, including scientific skeptics, who contend that it misrepresents facts:

On July 3, 2017, medical doctor and founder of Turntable Health, Zubin Damania, acting in his ZDoggMD persona, reviewed What the Health on his YouTube channel. Damania agreed with the documentary's assertion that a diet heavy in processed food was associated with negative health effects[17]:0:50 and that the Food and Drug Administration sometimes offered "stupid nutrition recommendations" regarding recommending a uniform solution for everyone.[17]:9:35 However, he also commented in detail on what he characterized as frequent confirmation bias and cherry-picking of selected data, as well as the oversimplification of complex health issues and rampant misinformation which he observed in the documentary.[17]:5:40 He also highlighted what he saw as the ridiculous claim made of "institutionalized racism" on the part of the dairy industry.[17]:9:00 Damania concluded in exasperation: "that was the stupidest [expletive] thing I've ever seen... I feel like I've lost [expletive] brain cells".[17] Joel Kahn, a cardiologist featured in the film, responded to ZDoggMD's video via a Medium article titled "Why ZDoggMD and His Toilet Humor Are Best Flushed and Forgotten".[18]
On July 11, 2017, medical doctor and scientific skeptic Harriet Hall, known as the SkepDoc, reviewed the documentary on Science-Based Medicine. Her opinion was summarized as follows: "What the Health espouses the fairy tale that all major diseases... can be prevented and cured by eliminating meat and dairy from the diet. It is a blatant polemic for veganism, biased and misleading, and is not a reliable source of scientific information." At the end of her article she concludes by asserting positive aspects of a plant based diet with "There are undisputed health advantages to a plant-based diet ..." and "We as a society should eat more plant foods ..." but counterpoints this with "... the evidence is insufficient to recommend that everyone adopt a vegan diet" and "we needn’t entirely reject all animal foods". Finally, she recommends moderation in all things.[19]
On July 20, 2017, emeritus professor in nutrition Martijn Katan from Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam called the film "propaganda", which exaggerates the health risks of meat, eggs and dairy, and rather dangerously claims veganism prevents or cures just about any disease, like cancer or diabetes. However, he stressed that everyone should eat less meat than the population currently does on average, and that going completely vegan can be a healthy lifestyle if you make sure you get all nutrients you need (though this is hard to do for young children, for whom he did not recommend a vegan diet) and it's also good for the environment.[20]
Sarah Berry, Lifestyle Health Editor for The Sydney Morning Herald commented that "What the Health does make some valid points including concerns about the influence of Big Food on dietary recommendations and about poor farming practices, which can be both inhumane and bad for the planet," adding that "The makers cherry-pick science, use biased sources, distort study findings and use 'weak-to-non-existent data ...'" Berry quoted Dr. Joanna McMillan as saying that "To me it's the usual product of those who are filmmakers and not nutrition scientists or trained in any aspect of medicine or science, therefore not trained or qualified to make sense of scientific research."[21]
In a review of the film, investigative journalist Nina Teicholz on DietDoctor.com praised the filmmakers' skills of persuasion, but concluded that the film's claims are not backed by scientific evidence.[22]
On August 8, 2017, writing for Quartz, Chase Purdy said that "By cherry-picking nutrition studies to make rickety claims, the makers of What the Health risk ratcheting up fear of certain foods based on weak science. It’s not a responsible way to try and change people’s behavior, and it does a disservice to nutritional scientists in the field."






Paul,I didn't post any links because I didn't want to turn the discussion into a "look at this" argument. there's plenty of data to look at on either side of the argument. I don't even want an argument. I just hope everyone will search the truth for themselves. That's what I am doing and the only thing I am encouraging anyone to do.

I will say that I think anyone would be an idiot to look at only a few sources and make a decision that changes their life.


So you watched it and liked it. Just know it is so much poppycock like much of vegan "science."

Meat and dairy in moderation, when combined with an otherwise balanced diet, exercise, maintaining a healthy weight and managing blood pressure is perfectly healthy. Science has not shown otherwise and never will. Had you employed such a diet and lifestyle over the whole of your life, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.
like learning to Pedal your bicycle on the right spot

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I am MAGA.
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Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Glad I already ate!



I'm being honest. I love to drain the juices from the plate a nicely cooked rare roast sits on. And raw beef used to be a treat when I knew it didn't come from some giant packing plant in Kansas or such.

I always figured if I were to be sucked up by the ALIENS, and mistakenly plopped down in the savannas of Kenya in a Masai village I'd do a whole lot better than some squeamish folks.

You find a link to that Yale study?

Geno


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

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Cool vid Jim.

However, cukes make me burp so I'll not be trying an overdose of them anytime soon.

Geno


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

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So the consensus for those not on a crusade is a clean balanced diet not in excess, and for dropping weight limit sugars and get off arse and do some moderate exercise.



Sounds like most of us have been living that for a long time...guess that is why we aren't all on an alfalfa diet.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Originally Posted by ldholton
First best way to make a vegan healthy it's a learn when to shut their mouths around redneck farmers and hunting types


LOL!


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I think that if a person has found a diet that gives them all that they have been seeking and they’re happy then that’s ultimately what matters. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll work for me but it doesn’t mean it won’t either, I’d have to commit to it and find out.

I have a dear hunting and fishing buddy that was a steak and Scotch man. He killed and ate meat like a champ but he retired and is now a vegan. We don’t hang out much anymore. I still eat steak and I’ll drink good whiskey, I’m imperfect and I’m good with that. 😁

I’m still into growing and killing and eating good food until I die. I’d have to give up chewing and a cup of coffee in the morning and a big dip still gives me the motivation to drag my sore ass out of bed. That’s all the motivation and dedication I need.

I am going to work out more at the gym this coming year post back rehab/surgery.


�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.

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Originally Posted by AcesNeights
I think that if a person has found a diet that gives them all that they have been seeking and they’re happy then that’s ultimately what matters. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll work for me but it doesn’t mean it won’t either, I’d have to commit to it and find out.

I have a dear hunting and fishing buddy that was a steak and Scotch man. He killed and ate meat like a champ but he retired and is now a vegan. We don’t hang out much anymore. I still eat steak and I’ll drink good whiskey, I’m imperfect and I’m good with that. 😁

I’m still into growing and killing and eating good food until I die. I’d have to give up chewing and a cup of coffee in the morning and a big dip still gives me the motivation to drag my sore ass out of bed. That’s all the motivation and dedication I need.

I am going to work out more at the gym this coming year post back rehab/surgery.


I am 110 kilos and am 4 kilos over what I should be, my daughter will be back from uni tomorrow and we will be running/walking day on/day off for the next three months...it takes me about three weeks to drop the 4 kilos, any lower than this and it affects my ability to lift.

Apart from dropping sugar my diet will not change.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Searching for the perfect diet for one individual and searching for thr perfect diet for "humans" are two different asymptotes that never meet.

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Originally Posted by JOG
Do you know how to determine if someone is a vegan?

Wait 10 seconds - they'll tell you.


LMAO


Camp is where you make it.
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