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I want to develop loads for an old Savage M219 (break-action single shot) chambered in .30-30 Winchester, but I want to use the Nosler .308" 168gr Ballistic Tip Boattail Hunting bullet (remember, its a single-shot so pointy bullets are okay). I am an experienced and cautious handloader. My search of various data sources, some more trust-worthy than others, turned up the powder & charge possibilities shown in the data request shown below:
Cartridge: .30-30 Winchester Cartridge overall length: 2.734” Bullet touching/jammed into lands at C.O.A.L. (Y/N): No Bullet: Nosler .308” 168gr Ballistic Tip Boattail Hunting (Part #30168) Measured bullet length: 1.304” Powder type & charge weight: H4895 32gr; H322 32gr; H335 35gr; 2520 31.5gr Case length: 2.029 Case water capacity (measured level to case mouth): 45gr Barrel length: 26” Barrel twist rate: 1 in 12
I don't want to exceed 42,000 psi! I would appreciate it greatly if someone who has Quickload would check its calculations for those loads. And beyond that, what other powder & charge combinations Quickload might suggest. I always start low and slowly work up.
Thanks in advance, guys. Jerry/AK
"Smile, God loves you!"
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I'd run that for you but don't have access to my PC at the moment. Nonetheless, I would think any published data for a 170-grain bullet should be useable.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Yes, I agree, keeping in mind that the Nosler 168gr has less bearing surface than the 170gr round-noses. The 168gr may therefore fly faster or at lower pressure. Jerry/AK
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Easiest way to compare four different powders: Cartridge : .30-30 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 168, Nosler BalTip 30168
Useable Case Capaci: 33.796 grain H2O = 2.194 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.734 inch = 69.44 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 42000 psi, or 289 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 107 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Accurate 2520 98.0 32.2 2.09 2294 97.7 42000 4564 1.455
Hodgdon H4895 97.6 30.4 1.97 2267 94.8 42000 4571 1.463
Hodgdon H335 88.9 30.2 1.96 2265 98.2 42000 4403 1.455
Hodgdon H322 93.9 28.4 1.84 2261 99.0 42000 4278 1.451
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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I am surprised that the 26-inch barrel didn't provide more velocity boost. I suppose it just can't do it when powder capacity is limited as it is in the .30-30 case. Just for comparison's sake, a 170-grain Sierra (but at the same OAL, which you probably would not do): Cartridge : .30-30 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 170, Sierra SPFN 30-30 2010
Useable Case Capaci: 39.330 grain H2O = 2.554 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.734 inch = 69.44 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 42000 psi, or 289 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 107 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Accurate 2520 92.0 35.2 2.28 2349 98.9 42000 5120 1.454
Hodgdon H4895 92.1 33.4 2.16 2332 96.6 42000 5187 1.453
Hodgdon H335 83.7 33.1 2.15 2322 99.2 42000 4940 1.448
Hodgdon H322 88.5 31.1 2.02 2319 99.7 42000 4790 1.443
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Thank you, RiverRider, for doing that. Now, I don't have any experience interpreting Quickload calculations, so please check my interpretations: 1. Any of the four powders I asked about appear prudent choices for this pressure limitation and my bullet choice. 2. 2520 appears to be the most likely to produce the highest velocity within the pressure limitation. 3. Any of the four might produce the best accuracy, but since H322 produces the lowest muzzle pressure it has the better chance to be the most accurate. 4. Should I consider the calculated charge weights for each powder as "Do not exceed" charges?
By the way, I didn't state it but my velocity goal was 2250fps, and I'm happy to see that it looks attainable. Jerry/AK
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Oh, regarding the data for 170gr bullets:you're right that it likely wouldn't be possible to seat those short, rounded ogive bullets out that far. I measured proper C.O.A.L. for my chamber and leade with the streamlined 168 boattails, and then backed off that by a couple of thousandths. Jerry/AK
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Thank you, RiverRider, for doing that. Now, I don't have any experience interpreting Quickload calculations, so please check my interpretations: 1. Any of the four powders I asked about appear prudent choices for this pressure limitation and my bullet choice. 2. 2520 appears to be the most likely to produce the highest velocity within the pressure limitation. 3. Any of the four might produce the best accuracy, but since H322 produces the lowest muzzle pressure it has the better chance to be the most accurate. 4. Should I consider the calculated charge weights for each powder as "Do not exceed" charges?
By the way, I didn't state it but my velocity goal was 2250fps, and I'm happy to see that it looks attainable. Jerry/AK You're welcome Jerry. Well...to begin with, I never regard QL output as "data." I think it's really more of an educated guess, or ballpark estimation. It's not a perfect program. As far as predicting accuracy potential, maybe and maybe not. In my opinion, QL is good for evaluating powders for potential results and staying relatively safe. The way I generally use QL is to monitor velocity and not exceed the prediction for the corresponding max pressure, and to get an idea what starting charge weights to use. If I was to be doing this, I'd try H4895 and H322 first simply because they should behave the best under different temperatures. That may or not be something that concerns you.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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I also view computer program output as "educated guesses. Although I inquired about those four specific powders, will Quickload suggest others? Your point about expecting a velocity advantage from my 26" barrel was something that occurred to me also. Maybe a slightly slower burning rate than the powders I asked about would help? Maybe Reloder 15, Varget, N540, or H380 (all of which I already have)?? I really appreciate you taking time to consider my questions. Jerry/AK
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Here's an unfiltered powder profile. Let's see if any will get significantly more velocity: Cartridge : .30-30 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 168, Nosler BalTip 30168
Useable Case Capaci: 33.800 grain H2O = 2.195 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.734 inch = 69.44 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 42000 psi, or 289 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 107 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
IMR 3031 102.7 29.9 1.94 2320 99.6 42000 4516 1.434
Accurate 2495 100.5 30.6 1.99 2315 99.9 42000 4513 1.475
Accurate 4064 106.5 32.5 2.10 2314 98.8 42000 4657 1.471
Alliant AR-Comp 97.8 29.5 1.91 2303 100.0 42000 4147 1.434
Norma 203 old 105.9 33.3 2.16 2303 95.5 42000 4762 1.451
Hodgdon BL-C2 97.2 33.0 2.14 2298 95.7 42000 4742 1.447
Alliant Reloder-17 107.0 35.0 2.27 2297 92.9 41351 5070 1.448
IMR 4895 101.4 31.6 2.05 2295 94.3 42000 4749 1.450
Accurate 2520 98.0 32.2 2.09 2294 97.7 42000 4564 1.455
Lovex D073.6 Match Rifle 100.2 32.2 2.09 2294 97.7 42000 4564 1.455
Winchester 748 94.0 31.5 2.04 2291 96.7 42000 4599 1.443
Hodgdon CFE223 96.0 33.3 2.16 2289 94.2 42000 4743 1.444
Norma 203B 102.7 32.0 2.07 2285 94.1 42000 4687 1.453
Alliant Reloder-15 102.0 31.8 2.06 2278 93.3 42000 4664 1.456
Ramshot Big Game 101.6 33.7 2.18 2277 93.2 42000 4692 1.447
Vihtavuori N540 101.3 31.9 2.07 2269 98.1 42000 4502 1.456
Hodgdon H4895 97.6 30.4 1.97 2267 94.8 42000 4571 1.463
Norma 202 98.8 30.3 1.96 2266 98.3 42000 4411 1.461
Hodgdon H335 88.9 30.2 1.96 2265 98.2 42000 4403 1.455
Ramshot Wild Boar 96.2 32.0 2.08 2262 93.8 42000 4566 1.455
Hodgdon H322 93.9 28.4 1.84 2261 99.0 42000 4278 1.452
Hodgdon H414 106.6 35.1 2.28 2260 86.7 42000 4756 1.453
Winchester 760 106.6 35.1 2.28 2260 86.7 42000 4756 1.453
Hodgdon H380 103.6 33.0 2.14 2257 91.2 42000 4618 1.463
Lovex S062 102.8 31.2 2.02 2255 95.8 42000 4467 1.471
Vihtavuori N530 93.8 29.4 1.90 2246 95.8 42000 4409 1.464
Vihtavuori N140 101.0 30.9 2.00 2246 98.5 42000 4245 1.459
Lovex D073.5 92.7 31.0 2.01 2243 96.8 42000 4352 1.483
Accurate 2460 92.4 31.0 2.01 2243 96.8 42000 4352 1.483
Norma 201 99.1 30.2 1.96 2241 95.8 42000 4421 1.484
IMR 4320 102.7 31.5 2.04 2240 93.2 42000 4444 1.455
Alliant Reloder-10x 90.9 26.7 1.73 2239 100.0 42000 4019 1.476
IMR 8208 XBR 95.5 29.8 1.93 2234 95.6 42000 4333 1.468
Alliant Reloder-12 93.4 29.7 1.92 2233 98.9 42000 4165 1.463
Vihtavuori N135 107.0 30.2 1.96 2232 99.4 39435 4181 1.491
Vihtavuori N550 107.0 34.1 2.21 2231 89.8 38255 4769 1.504
Accurate 2015 94.1 28.1 1.82 2229 99.9 42000 4010 1.484
Lovex D073.4 90.8 30.3 1.96 2229 96.6 42000 4261 1.482
Hodgdon VARGET 103.0 31.0 2.01 2226 92.7 42000 4395 1.464
IMR 4064 104.1 30.6 1.99 2225 93.1 42000 4339 1.468
Norma 200 87.3 26.6 1.72 2224 100.0 42000 3907 1.499
Accurate 2230 91.7 30.9 2.00 2221 94.9 42000 4279 1.481
Ramshot TAC 94.8 31.9 2.06 2207 90.0 42000 4361 1.480
Ramshot X-Terminator 92.2 30.7 1.99 2206 93.6 42000 4265 1.482
Vihtavuori N133 99.2 28.3 1.83 2199 99.7 42000 3850 1.473
Accurate 2200 85.1 26.9 1.75 2195 97.4 42000 4043 1.480
Hodgdon Benchmark 93.4 28.7 1.86 2194 96.2 42000 4107 1.484
IMR 4198 88.9 24.8 1.61 2194 100.0 42000 3655 1.465
IMR 4451 Enduron 104.8 32.3 2.09 2191 87.0 42000 4302 1.476
IMR 4007 SSC 103.8 32.8 2.12 2190 86.2 42000 4326 1.488
Vihtavuori N130 92.9 27.1 1.75 2188 100.0 42000 3778 1.486
Alliant Reloder-7 84.2 25.4 1.64 2183 100.0 42000 3713 1.495
Lovex S060 96.1 29.1 1.89 2182 93.8 42000 4110 1.486
Accurate 1680 77.5 25.2 1.63 2178 99.4 42000 3817 1.484
Winchester 296 65.6 22.0 1.42 2176 100.0 42000 3532 1.504
Lovex S065 107.0 32.6 2.11 2170 88.5 39018 4342 1.527
Lovex D060 74.4 21.7 1.40 2165 100.0 42000 3660 1.484
Accurate 5744 72.8 21.7 1.40 2165 100.0 42000 3660 1.484
IMR 4166 Enduron 102.9 30.7 1.99 2162 87.2 42000 4129 1.494
Vihtavuori N120 87.1 24.8 1.61 2158 100.0 42000 3352 1.490
Hodgdon H4198 85.3 25.0 1.62 2156 98.5 42000 3723 1.485
Norma URP 107.0 33.0 2.14 2152 87.9 34985 4539 1.561
Vihtavuori N125 81.7 23.7 1.53 2149 100.0 42000 3329 1.496
Hodgdon H4227 79.9 22.8 1.48 2146 100.0 42000 3364 1.485
Lovex D063 70.3 22.9 1.48 2144 100.0 42000 3485 1.484
Vihtavuori N150 107.0 31.5 2.04 2142 94.2 35836 4230 1.557
Accurate 2700 103.3 33.6 2.18 2138 85.5 42000 4017 1.504
Ramshot Hunter 107.0 34.4 2.23 2134 84.3 35432 4506 1.562
Lovex S070 107.0 33.0 2.14 2134 85.4 36305 4328 1.564
Norma 204 107.0 34.4 2.23 2127 80.5 38015 4308 1.536
Accurate 4350 107.0 33.3 2.16 2126 87.2 32356 4558 1.606
Hodgdon H110 66.8 22.3 1.45 2121 100.0 42000 3263 1.520
IMR 4350 107.0 33.2 2.15 2117 83.6 37401 4170 1.547
Lovex S053 80.0 22.4 1.45 2111 100.0 42000 3167 1.508
Alliant Reloder-16 107.0 32.5 2.10 2099 87.1 31881 4511 1.614
Hodgdon Lil'Gun 65.6 21.2 1.38 2098 100.0 42000 3077 1.529
Hodgdon H4350 107.0 32.6 2.11 2074 82.2 35262 4066 1.584
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 107.0 32.3 2.09 2068 88.8 32420 4202 1.616
Accurate 4100 63.9 20.6 1.33 2048 100.0 42000 2863 1.530
Vihtavuori N110 74.7 19.7 1.28 2045 100.0 42000 2836 1.536
Alliant 2400 61.9 18.3 1.19 2041 100.0 42000 2824 1.530
Ramshot Enforcer 61.1 19.4 1.26 2030 100.0 42000 2787 1.542
Lovex S040 67.3 18.7 1.21 2017 100.0 42000 2740 1.529
IMR 4831 107.0 31.9 2.07 2017 84.8 28986 4185 1.682
Alliant Reloder-19 107.0 33.3 2.16 2014 76.8 31684 4099 1.646
Accurate No.9 55.6 18.4 1.19 1991 100.0 42000 2637 1.544
Lovex D037.2 55.1 18.4 1.19 1991 100.0 42000 2637 1.544
Winchester Supreme 780 107.0 35.2 2.28 1980 76.0 32589 3905 1.653
Alliant BLUE DOT 66.0 16.7 1.08 1962 100.0 42000 2555 1.557
Norma MRP 107.0 34.8 2.25 1950 73.5 27984 4221 1.735
IMR 4955 Enduron 107.0 32.4 2.10 1949 74.2 31072 3717 1.679
Norma R123 56.0 17.5 1.13 1945 100.0 42000 2493 1.606
Lovex D037.1 49.7 16.7 1.08 1944 100.0 42000 2459 1.566
Accurate No.7 50.0 16.7 1.08 1944 100.0 42000 2459 1.566
Alliant Reloder-26 107.0 35.8 2.32 1941 75.0 27273 4394 1.752
Hodgdon H4831 SC 107.0 33.7 2.18 1940 71.6 30959 3752 1.690
IMR 7828 SSC 107.0 34.2 2.22 1922 68.6 29818 3837 1.714
Vihtavuori N560 107.0 34.1 2.21 1909 67.9 27564 3923 1.756
Alliant Reloder-22 107.0 33.7 2.18 1908 71.4 26927 3961 1.768
Alliant POWER PISTOL 54.6 13.5 0.87 1893 100.0 42000 2361 1.579
Vihtavuori 3N38 62.4 15.9 1.03 1885 100.0 42000 2242 1.587
Vihtavuori N105 63.2 15.4 1.00 1872 100.0 42000 2193 1.607
Alliant Reloder-23 107.0 32.6 2.11 1861 77.8 24146 3947 1.843
Vihtavuori N160 107.0 32.0 2.07 1857 71.8 27468 3443 1.765
Hodgdon H4831 107.0 32.4 2.10 1853 68.8 27266 3511 1.769
Accurate MAGPRO 107.0 35.4 2.30 1852 63.9 26252 3748 1.801
Winchester WXR 107.0 33.0 2.14 1850 69.3 24860 3772 1.829
Accurate 3100 107.0 33.3 2.16 1840 75.6 23356 3769 1.860
Vihtavuori N165 107.0 33.0 2.14 1830 72.3 25663 3498 1.823
Lovex D036 42.9 13.8 0.89 1827 100.0 42000 2126 1.618
Accurate No.5 42.9 13.8 0.89 1826 100.0 42000 2125 1.618
Ramshot Magnum 107.0 36.3 2.35 1805 66.6 26751 3557 1.816
IMR 7828 107.0 32.4 2.10 1801 64.2 24970 3447 1.845
Hodgdon HS-6 46.5 14.3 0.93 1780 100.0 42000 1967 1.638
Alliant Reloder-25 107.0 33.2 2.15 1773 67.6 22844 3552 1.907
Vihtavuori 3N37 56.7 13.6 0.88 1764 100.0 42000 1936 1.647
Hodgdon Longshot 44.5 13.9 0.90 1762 100.0 42000 1921 1.648
Ramshot True Blue 44.1 14.0 0.91 1760 100.0 42000 1914 1.649
IMR 7977 Enduron 107.0 33.0 2.14 1759 60.5 27339 2965 1.825
Winchester 540 43.4 13.9 0.90 1758 100.0 42000 1911 1.650
Alliant HERCO 64.8 12.7 0.82 1753 100.0 42000 1937 1.675
Vihtavuori N350 59.0 13.4 0.87 1753 100.0 42000 1894 1.650
Alliant BULLSEYE 52.6 10.9 0.70 1730 100.0 42000 1900 1.667
Winchester WAP 48.2 13.1 0.85 1727 100.0 42000 1848 1.665
Ramshot Silhouette 48.1 13.0 0.84 1724 100.0 42000 1841 1.667
Alliant UNIQUE 58.4 11.7 0.76 1723 100.0 42000 1851 1.685
Lovex S071 107.0 31.5 2.04 1718 71.2 19659 3424 2.002
Accurate No.2 55.7 11.5 0.75 1693 100.0 42000 1744 1.702
Vihtavuori N340 57.9 12.0 0.78 1681 100.0 42000 1710 1.694
Lovex S020 53.5 11.6 0.75 1659 100.0 42000 1654 1.712
Hodgdon Universal 56.0 11.2 0.73 1654 100.0 42000 1683 1.731
Hodgdon H1000 107.0 33.0 2.14 1652 56.7 21806 2843 1.985
Vihtavuori N330 55.2 11.2 0.73 1631 100.0 42000 1600 1.730
Ramshot Zip 44.1 11.6 0.75 1630 100.0 42000 1611 1.729
Winchester 231 49.1 11.6 0.75 1630 100.0 42000 1611 1.729
Accurate Solo 1250 60.7 11.3 0.73 1630 100.0 42000 1589 1.723
Lovex D032 40.5 10.6 0.69 1630 100.0 42000 1603 1.737
Accurate Nitro 100 61.4 10.0 0.65 1625 100.0 42000 1642 1.760
Lovex D013 61.4 10.0 0.65 1625 100.0 42000 1642 1.760
Hodgdon HP38 43.9 11.5 0.74 1623 100.0 42000 1592 1.733
Maxam CSB 1 63.9 11.7 0.76 1623 100.0 42000 1550 1.730
Lovex S011 51.7 10.9 0.71 1616 100.0 42000 1567 1.738
Alliant GREEN DOT 61.4 10.7 0.69 1614 100.0 42000 1592 1.767
Lovex S015 61.6 10.6 0.69 1599 100.0 42000 1552 1.772
Accurate Solo 1000 61.6 10.6 0.69 1599 100.0 42000 1552 1.772
Alliant RED DOT 64.2 10.0 0.65 1591 100.0 42000 1552 1.761
Vihtavuori N320 56.8 10.4 0.67 1585 100.0 42000 1492 1.759
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Not leaving much on the table!
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,488
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 14,488 |
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,997
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
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Posts: 1,997 |
Very interesting stuff! Quickload looks like a great tool. Thanks again. I can't think of any more questions at tis time. It's time to do some cautious trials. Shall I post results here?
"Smile, God loves you!"
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Heck yeah! Always interesting.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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