Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Best All-Around 7-08 Choice?

So you are sincerely telling us that with 42 odd years of hunting and on 4 or so continents, you have NEVER taken a picture of any of your harvests?
I could almost believe that if you were farmer that shot deer on the back forty so that his family has dinner to eat....but someone that has traveled the world on a quest to harvest animals, it seems a bit far fetched.

My old man is one of the ornriest men I know and apparently they had to damn near chain him down to take pictures of him at his own wedding, but he has pictures of game he has taken.

I am not usually a sceptic, but I am struggling with this one.
You probably have high speed film of bullets entering "Media" as you call it.....but not one snapshot out of a 35mm of a animal with a hole in it.

Well Lee now has a digital camera, or so he says,...so now its up to him to post a pic. I think Dvdgeorge hit the nail on the head with his last post, and even got a pic of Lee in the process......imagine that!

Looks like some respected authorities have been mis-quoted and editorialized in this thread. Here�s what an actual search turned up, posted in context to restore accuracy to the information presented around here. (Bold type mine):

Spomer, from an online article in Hunting Magazine:

�Just where do we draw the line? Most experienced hunters consider 1,000 ft.-lbs. minimum for deer, 1,500 ft.-lbs. for elk, though of course much less energy will do the job under ideal conditions. Still, the 1,000 ft.-lbs. minimum is a reasonable starting point. Using this figure, the .257 Wby. drops out of contention as an elk round at about 370 yards but doesn't run out of gas as a deer round until well beyond 500 yards. With a pointed boattail 140-grain bullet, the .264 Win. Mag. still generates 1,491 ft.-lbs. at 500 yards. It should be adequate for elk and moose at all reasonable hunting ranges, thus we'll choose it as our minimum all-round cartridge.
From here on up, nearly any cartridge that propels a 130-grain or heavier, sharply pointed, premium, controlled-expansion bullet at least 2,900 fps from the muzzle will meet our minimum energy standards out to 300 yards. Anything faster and heavier is gravy. Or insurance. Your choice.
This means the 7mm-08 Rem. is in, but the .30-30 Win. is out. The .270 Win., .280 Rem., .284 Win., 7x57 Mauser and 7mm SAUM Rem. are in. The .308 Win. and .30-06 are easy picks, as are all of the new short and long magnums over .277 caliber.�

http://www.huntingmag.com/guns_loads/all_012505/

Here�s what Boddington really thinks about the topic, from an online forum:

�Okay, I'll jump on that grenade. You guys know I like the "mediums" for elk (8mm Rem. Mag., .338, etc.). But, honest, I have never, ever, ever (cross my heart and hope to die) said you can't take elk with a .270. My personal longest shot on elk was with a .270 Winchester using 150-grain Partitions (410 yards, one shot, near-instant kill). I think that's a bit on the far side, so let's say that's at least maximum. As for bullet weight, I personally have great confidence in the 140 and 150-grain bullets for larger game with the .270--but construction is far more important than weight. I would have no problem whatsoever hunting elk with a 130-grain Barnes X, Nosler Partition, Winchester Fail Safe, etc., just so long as the bullet is designed to penetrate.�

http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=239715

Being on the safe side of recommended minimums is commendable. Twisting the expert's words and taking them out of context to support weak, outdated argument is despicable, and a sure sign the debate has been lost.

Boddington says .30-06 or 7mmRM with 175s is his minimum.
8mm Rem Mag or .338 WM is his preference.
.270 Winchester is marginal, and 400 yards is too far.

Hunting Magazine 2005
The Ideal Elk Rifle

"I know many hunters kill elk with .270s, but I believe 7mm is the bare minimum for hardy animals weighing up to half a ton. I've never hunted elk with a .416 or similar cartridge, either. You can, but cartridges suitable for elephants and Cape buffalo are no more ideal for elk than are lighter fodder appropriate for deer.

"All of my elk have been taken with cartridges ranging from the .30-06 up to the .375 H&H. I have no issue with those who swear by 7mms from the .280 on up, but I consider .30 caliber as my minimum for elk. I have great confidence in the .30-06 with 180-grain bullets, but in more open country I feel even better about the faster .30s (I also prefer 200-grain bullets to 180s).

"To me, the ideal for most elk hunting lies above .30 caliber and below .375. This means the 8mm Rem. Mag. and the faster .33 and .35 calibers. Just how fast depends on how and where you hunt, and also how much recoil you're comfortable with."

Just boosting my post count.....

Ok Lee let's try it this way.

With out quoting books or magazines or internet articles (because we have already proven that they are not always the most consistent), I will start a sentence and you fill in the blanks.


Based on my hunting experiences harvesting Insert Game Type Here I have found that a Insert Caliber Here rifle with a Insert Bullet Weight and Type Here has been the most effective as can be seen in the picture below when I harvested a Insert Game Type Here in Insert Continent and/or State Here during the Insert Season Here of Insert Year Here

INSERT PICTURE HERE

Lee,

One of the best Elk outfitters in the country is Jed Wayment of J and J Hunting in Utah.

I propose the following challenge:

We both book hunts on one of Jeds ranches ; the good ones run anywhere from 10 to 15 thousand each.

For this kind of money Jed runs near 100% on trophy bulls that score from 340 to nearly 400 B.C.

We both put up the cost of both hunts in advance: we'll get Jed to put the extra money in escrow.

I will carry my 7mm-08 with 120grain tsx bullets .

You carry whatever floats your boat.

If I harvest a bull elk and it is a clean kill, you pay for both hunts.

If I wound and lose my elk [Jed has a strict wounding policy,wound a bull and you can not shoot another],I will pay for both hunts.

This is no joke,I will put my money where my mouth is.

Will you?

Britt

Britt-right on, that is about exactly what my beedy little mind was thinking as well...grins

Dober

Lee,

Now we are getting somewhere. Since Boddington wrote what YOU quote, he has in fact taken elk with the 270 at long range. Once he had ACTUAL EXPERIENCE, he changed his mind. Perhaps if you ever get actual experience, you too may change your mind. Imagine that, an opinion based on ACTUAL REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE, rather than uneducated guessing. Oh, the horror!!!!

The number of elk that I've personally been around taken in the 450-650 range with a 270 would set a few people back, so I don't speak of it much.

Suffice to say, I've got a bit of actual experience on said matter, probably a bit more than most. I wouldn't be using the round if'n it gave one issues.

And amazing enough you hit em in the proper place, and you take out their lungs and they join their ancesotors rather quickly, any my grill...grins

If I recall right CB used 57/R22 and a 150 NPT and nocked the bulls dick in the dirt @ 407 or 410 or something like that...grins

This stuff is only rocket science if one chooses to make it such. And one thing I've noticed for sure is those that make it rocket science generally have the least amount of experience.

The one jazzbo we have talking the most has never even hunted elk and or killed one, go figure.

He calls me lucky....grins

Guess I am as I've had the privaledge of hunting elk for almost 3 decades and have seen more elk hit the terra firma than most can every dream of in several life times.

Yepper by gosh I am the lucky one...grins

Make it your best day!

Dober

Lots of elk have been killed with whatever gun the locals carry in their trucks, from .243 and .30-30 up, including SKS. That only proves that people don't have good judgement.

My standards apply to all BIG game, from mountain goat up to the dangerous stuff. Elk fall into that category. A .270 with 150-gr bullets is at the bottom end, and the only circumstance in which I would use it is in a light rifle or Mannlicher for bear, sheep or goats inside its power limit of 300 yards. For other game, I have .30-06s, 8x57s, .375s, .444s, and I don't get my kicks by taking marginal shots with marginal equipment.

ruraldoc, if you want to compete, you should try out for a US Shooting Team. Don't play with animals and underpowered rifles.

Hey, I see none of you have been over in the Elk forum, promoting 120-gr bullets and 400 yard shots. That demonstrates some judgement on your part.

Thanks CAS, you got to the end of the trail ahead of me.

Spomer references the traditional wisdom, (1500FPE for elk) and then says that he believes a lower standard than that is appropriate today. The latest from Boddington when contrasted with his 2005 quote, (had a feeling that would come up ) also shows a change in opinion in response to new information and experience. He could have stayed with the 2005 opinion forever but he apparently approached the subject with an open mind, even after many years of experience.

Lesson there.....

Holy cow!!!! Please tell me that you are merely sitting back at your keyboard laughing at the masses as you chum them. No one could really be this dense.

Lee-I am not talking about some local carrying their 243/30-30, sks or whatever. If you had a lick of freakin sense you would be able to sort that out.

You need to get a grip man, there are people in this world that have a ton load of experience and there is a lot of it that a jazzbo like you with no experience could benefit from if you would just shut up and listen.

Your are the only one on here that exhibits lack of good judgement by not shutting the duck up and listening to those with some experience.

You are without a doubt on the all time 24 hourcampfire booger eating maroon team!

I am way past done with you!

Mark D

There are lots of more intelligent and serious shooters carrying on this discussion in private messages.

Again, why don't I see you guys making your pitch for 120-gr bullets and 500 yard shots in the elk forum? Afraid of being laughed out?

Intelligent and serious? I live in one of the most elk rich states in the country. Have killed double digits in numbers myself, and have been involved in about 6 times that number. Over the last month have been involved in a depredation hunt in which six elk were taken. (Three with 100 grain Corelocks from .243's). My nine year old took one last weekend with a 300 yard shot from a .264 (Using Corelocks). Time to back away from the crack pipe and go out an' do some real hunting. GD Internet wanna'bes.

By the way, I have killed several with archery equipment. Wander how many FPE's my arrows had.

Lee,

Does this mean that you don't want to prove that you're right and get a free trophy elk hunt in the process?

Anybody who claims to know so much should put up or shut up.

Remember, Money talks and bull$hit walks.

Go ahead take the bet, prove that you at least believe the things you lecture others about.

If you're right you have nothing to lose , your response will show everyone if you have the courage to stand for your convictions.

If you are physically or financially unable, just find a friend who believes in you to stand for you. Surely you know somebody that believes in you enough to take a little risk to get a free world class elk hunt.

Go ahead, you want to, you know you're right,make my day.

Britt

He's team captain

Perzactly!

I've said it 1000 times, killing stuff is only difficult in the minds of those who haven't done it.