Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Canada Question for my Canadian freinds

I've spent a fair amount of time in Canada. Every time, I ask about the health care I usually hear, " it has it's it's problems, but we wouldn't change it for yours" My son in law has diabetes and pays alot for insulin.So i am curious, is there a consensus? I am asking respectfully and not looking to get into augments about which system is better. It's just every time we hear anything down here about your system, it's negative.

The US has the highest medical costs in the world, but far from the best medical outcomes.

Canadians consistently rate our public healthcare system as Canada's proudest political achievement.

It's not perfect, by any means, but I wouldn't trade it for the American "system" for anything in the world.

My personal experience has been good, but I know some who have had a lot of trouble. I developed a blood disorder that required ongoing transfusions and then a splenectomy. All well handled.

I got a kidney stone and they did an MRI the same morning, yet I know people who have waited 6 months for an MRI for potential cancer.

Have a buddy who needed a hip replacement that waited years. Another who was told he needed (another) hip replacement and when he was on the table the doc looked at the X-ray and said it was his back, not his hip.

The biggest problem here in Canada is finding a family doctor. Most have wait-lists and you can go years without one. My own, I’ve been with the same office for 47 years (my current doctor took over from the original one). I’ve tried to find one closer to home now that I’ve moved out of the city, but no luck so I travel there when I need an appt.

That and we can’t pay extra for better service. No “two tier” health care. Except for pro athletes and politicians.

I think you saw the same thing with the ACA that the politicians weren’t required to have the same health plan they voted for everyone else. Gotta wonder why that is.

Well there are tax payers who pay into it and there are people who live on welfare that don't pay into it and so both parties get healthcare. Those who contribute get treated equally as poor as those who don't.

Long wait times, in clinics and ER. Going to see your Dr? In and out in 10 min, and that includes waiting in the room for him to finish with the patient before. I was literally told by my Dr that he didn't have time to remove a 4th mole, only 3 of the 4. I had a deviated septum, used to get killer sinus infections, all the time. It took a lot of appointments, lots of complaining to get things in motion. Most of the time I was told to get antibiotics. Eventually I quit going to the Dr for that. I had an appointment with an ENT and got my nose scoped and was supposed to be booked into a CT scan. The next solution was just prescription nasal sprays. One "specialist" in allergies wanted to give me a 12 month prescription for a steroid nasal spray. I filled one, read the box and the side effects and tossed it. More complaining to my new Dr and it turns out the ENT didn't book the CT scan!!!!!!! So my current Dr. booked in and in a few weeks I was in. Yup deviated septum. Okay then I had to go see a sleep specialist/ENT to get assessed AGAIN. Sleep study too. I said I wanted my nose fixed and eventually I had to go see the surgeon for another assessment. Okay I finally got my surgery, haven;t had an infection since.

People abuse the system, they go to the ER for every little damn issue because clinic wait times are horrendous. So the people with the actual emergencies get held up. Nurses and their staff are total bitches most of the time and they are LAZY. I played soccer with a guy that broke his leg and he was waiting 8hrs without a bed to even see a Dr.!!!


I am not sure how much tax I pay that specifically goes into the healthcare system but I would like to know, then I would like to know how much a US health insurance plan costs. Honestly in Alberta we might be going semi-private which could be great. My dad had to wait 6-8 months for a CT scan or MRI. He was going to AZ so he took all the forms from the Dr. and got next day service for $350USD.

If it was me and I hurt my knee or something and needed surgery, I would gladly pay out of pocket to get it fixed and return to work rather than wait in the line for months or even years.

It's not that great man!!!

Canada kinda sucks honestly.

Insulin would not be covered via the Canadian Public Health system.

It would possibly be covered under his employers Health Benefit plan, should his employer offer a benefits package to their employees.

I run a small 3 man automotive garage.

All my employees have full medical, dental, eye, death & disability coverage paid for by me.

This cost me, the employer, significant $$$$, a little shy of $20K per year, to fully cover 3 families.

But, I have the best red seal automotive technicians available in our area & our little business has a stellar local reputation.

Well, I'm way up North, away from the bulk of the population, each province virtually runs its own system, ........here, we're virtually subsidized by the Feds. Everyone claims we have the best system, almost everything is free, but it is abused by lots. Anything serious gets sent south and costs are paid along with housing. Lots of folks only stay here instead of retiring south because of the free medical. No one has to shy away from medical issues due to costs. Here, the insulin is free.

Thanks guys! I think my son in law pays about $500 a month for his insulin.

Canada ranks #30 on the World Health Organization's ranking of health care systems, so it's not as great as some of us Canadians claim. The truth is Canada's health care system rations services, for some things it can take month or years even.

After 18 months of struggling to get into see a spinal surgeon.

I was told by a top level spinal surgeon that I should wait another two years with serious issues from spinal stenosis as I would be happier with the results. Results that he gave me as a 50% chance of a 50% solution.

My comment was “so if I wait until my life is total crap I’ll be happy with your half-assed procedure”, his response was yes.

Got online and found a place in the states that did laparoscopic stenosis relief. Had the surgery within months and could have had it in weeks if I did not some things in the calendar I could not move.

There are things in the Canadian system which are good and some that suck. I’m sure if I had broader exposure to the American system I’d say the same.

The assh&le politicians and special interest groups on both sides of the border tell lots of lies to avoid having an honest and informed conversation about improving health care. Just my humble opinion.

Being from south of the border, all I can tell you is what I was told by someone out near Wabigoon's home away from home...…………..

Was talking to a guy about the healthcare situation and quality, wait times, etc...……. I asked him what people did when they REALLY needed a procedure. He said, "We go to Minnesota, eh."

Told me about all I needed to know, I guess...………….

Having lived in a country with a two-tier system and having lived in Canada for close to 20 years.
I’d say healthcare here in Canada has generally been very good to my family.
Wait times can be long for non emergency procedures, and some people go to the dr or ER for a cold which ties up resources so it’s not perfect in that way.
I’d say that if you have a higher income the two tier system is better but if you are middle class the Canadian system is better.

Exactly why I posted the question, the commercials on TV down here are all one sided. They really paint a negative picture of your health care system. Thank you for your reply!

Basically an echo of what others have said.

Specifically for your son, my understanding is our system doesn't cover anything insulin wise. In saying that, the US and Canada may have different control over the drug companies and the insulin here maybe less expensive (you'd have to research that), but you're still paying out of pocket unless you have an extended benefits plan through your employer.

As far as our health system in general, from my personal/family experiences, I personally think it sucks. Doctor shortages everywhere, lucky if you have one. Huge wait times for even the most basic tests/surgeries. As someone else mentioned everything is rushed and we are treated like cattle which causes the Drs to either not care or miss things, even the specialists. All the DRs up here seem to be very prescription driven, in other words rather than looking for a real cause/problem, they just automatically write a prescription to treat the symptoms. I feel like they are basically all sold out to the big pharma companies.

I injured my dominant shoulder sometime last spring, don't know how/what. After a few months of general rest/taking it easy, it wasn't getting better and got the feeling it would probably require surgery. Went to DR, she said she could get me an x-ray fairly quickly but it wouldn't confirm anything 100% as it's probably soft tissue or she could put me on the wait list for an MRI or ultrasound which could take up to 2 years but she suggested physio. I did 6 months of that which made no real difference. So here I am back at square 1 and will have to wait for up to 2 years to get an ultrasound or MRI before I can even see a specialist to discuss surgery. Basically anything I do that requires shoulder movement causes pain, often really bad sharp stabbing pain. I'm only in my early 30s and can barely shovel snow from my driveway. Can't play hockey. I'm an electrician by trade, if I was actually still working on the tools, I think I would be off work on long term disability. I should have put my name on the last at the start and at least I'd be 6 months further in the queue.

At this point, I'm considering looking into private surgery but even that's more difficult here as the government was using the private centers to take some of the burden off the public hospitals but then put more restrictions on them, like how many surgeries they are allowed to do in a day etc to prevent burnout. So, when all said and done, I either pay out of pocket for private, or wait years to go through public system, or now possibly even have to wait and pay! What a joke!

It's hit and miss. Trying to find a good doctor is difficult. Luckily I've had the same one since 1988. A LOT of screw ups with surgery and diagnosis. If there was something wrong with myself or my family we would be going to Mayo clinic. I know of several that have went. It has either saved thier lives or gave them a much better quality of life. We have a lot of immigrant doctors and surgeons. Some are very good. Others you wonder how it the heck did this person get a license to practice medicine. We pay for prescription drugs. Visiting a doctor or being in hospital is covered. Wait times to see a specialist or to have tests done or surgery can be long.

Like any system, it does get abused. Having a GP opens some doors quite quickly. Had a melanoma removed from the side of my nose and plastic surgery done in the same day. It cost me $10 for parking, no benefits plan involved. Hernia surgery was 4 weeks from diagnosis to being on the table.

Living in a smaller centre may get faster service but you still have to travel for the big stuff. Son was 10 weeks pre-mature and was hospitalized for weeks. It scares me to think of what that would have cost us in the US, probably our house, without insurance.

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Overall, I'll take our system, for medical care.

Health Canada deemed stem cell injections a "drug" and thus further restricting Canadians and holding us further hostage to the system.

I would try stem cell injections before surgery for most cases.

I had an arm/shoulder injury, bicepital tendinitis and my old Dr said there wasn't anything they could do, MAYBE PHYSIO he said. I said F that and went to physio, 5 sessions over 10 weeks with my own stretching daily and my arm was healed. I could punch that Dr several times over for the crap service he provided.


Lots of walk in clinics have a patient cut off too. By noon usually, if you aren't checked in to wait all day you're not getting in. Come back tomorrow.

The Canadian health care system is overloaded with bureaucrats and administration costs. Nonetheless, it has served us well. My wife's cancer treatments and surguries would have bankrupted us in the States. Emergency care has always been good and treatment has been prompt and thorough. When I talk to people who are spending a thousand dollars a month for insurance which does not cover everything, I can't help but wonder how they think that is a good system. At least the insurance companies are doing well, I guess. GD

Day to day things in the realm of medicine in Canada come under the purview of the individual provinces. The Fed oversees it but it is administered by the province. Each province has its own health care program. The Feds provide some funding, as does the province. Funds come from taxation, so the more tax an individual pays, the more goes into healthcare. The ones who pay little or no taxes still get medicare. They are the ones that get "free health care." The rest of us pay for theirs.

Initially the system was funded by a three way split. The citizens paid premiums for a third, the provinces chipped in a third and the feds, another third. Before long though, the feds started cutting back on their share because the obvious place to cut spending was on health care. I mean, you can't be spending money on health care when you need it to pay for business class flights, limosine service, high dollar hotel rooms, international travel, favours for friends and all of the other pork that public officials can't help but snork down. At the same time, high level officials within the medical system overspend for everything and waste money everywhere. They are incompetent, just like many high level execs.
Taxes do, indeed, pay for health care and people who pay higher taxes do pay more; at least they pay more individually. However, if the taxes were not spent on health care, they would simply be spent on something else; possibly with less benefit. This is reflected in the federal budget. Although the feds fund a smaller percentage of the costs than before, the federal budget doesn't get reduced. Funds are simply reallocated. Also, a lot of those people who pay less taxes are those people who work 60 hour weeks building things and providing service to the fat cats. They aren't smart enough or, in some cases, dishonest enough to do less for more. They get hurt and get sick doing the work so they are sort of entitled. To the guy out there swinging a hammer or pouring concrete at minus 15, that guy twenty floors up, shuffling papers and talking on the phone, is just as much a parasite as the welfare bum in the park. GD

My son in law turned 18 in march, when he was still in high school. In april he went into diabetic shock and was rushed to the emergency room, he didn't know he was diabetic. He was in the hospital for five days. He was released with full blown diabetes, four shots a day. He was being raised by a single mom, and they took him off her insurance when he turned 18, (before Obama care). Two weeks later he go a bill for over 30,000$. The cost for insulin was about 500$ a month. So, the kid's still in high school owing all this money, by the time he was done done his credit was destroyed. He got he hospital to reduce the debt some, but when he married my daughter he was still in debt. He's a great hard working kid, and I helped him reestablish his credit, that's why i'm interested in an alternative to our system. Thank you to everyone who replied.

You don't have your location in your profile, but if you or your son-in-law are anywhere near the Canadian border, take the prescription for insulin to Canada. Unlike Mexico, Canada has very tight quality controls and you can rest assured that you will get real drugs, not fakes.

Insulin in Canada is about one-tenth the cost as it is in the USA.

LINK

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John

I'm in southern NH, thank you for your post. I'm going to look into it

In Canada, you may not even be asked for a prescription -- insulin does NOT require a prescription in Canada.

However, nobody goes on it unless a doctor diagnoses diabetes (after all, you can't get high on it) , so some pharmacists may think it is on prescription. Just politely ask them to check.

I don't know if the US has laws against importing insulin though, so check that out! They might have import regulations to protect pharmaceutical companies in the USA.

I think the price difference is the number of years that a company is protected from other companies making generic copies of a drug they developed -- this time is short in Canada, so prices on generics are low.

John

jpb;
Happy New Year to you sir, I trust that the year's been a good one for you thus far.

We've had a relatively mild winter so far here - have only had to plow the driveway twice - but it appears that the third time is in the offing as the white stuff is drifting down as I type.

As some of the posters have mentioned already, I would also opine that the medical system is hit and miss.

Here in the Okanagan, while we're comparatively rural, it's still a popular place to be, so we'll get doctors in from South Africa or parts of the world where they'd prefer less winter and more recreational activity than they'd find in rural Alberta or Saskatchewan for instance.

That said, even here we're having problems recruiting new doctors and a few valleys over in the Kootenays some towns are forced to shut down their ER because of a lack of doctors.

Some folks have mentioned that specialists can be booked for what seems like or may well be years in advance which can be extremely tough when it's preventing one from working or doing other "normal" life activities.

We're pretty good at dealing with trauma cases in a reasonable time frame, broken limbs, etc seem to seldom be too much of an issue.

In the past 3 years or so there's been a epidemic of fentanyl overdoses here in southern BC. They're weekly in Penticton where our family works and we know it's welfare cheque day because of the ambulance sirens. The volume of overdoses is such that it absolutely will delay other folks getting surgery sometimes - as was the case with my late mother when she fell and broke her hip.

To be clear she did eventually get the surgery, but nonetheless the overdoses do tax our medical system to the point of stalling it sometimes. It's a situation that my LEO buddies have to deal with all the time too of course and it takes way, way too much of their time too.

Before leaving fentanyl, I often wonder aloud if the politicians spent even a tenth of the time dealing with that issue rather than trying to disarm us because a dozen gang members choose illegal firearms to remove one another from this mortal coil what the results might be, you know? There were by the way 1226 fentanyl OD's in BC in 2017, 1337 in 2018 and 702 in 2019 - daunting math any way you slice it, no?

Lastly to the OP's question, I'd say that it would really depend on the region of Canada vs the individual state and possibly region within that state as to whether our system would be preferable or not. I suppose that as with most things in life, we tend to prefer to stick with the devil we know don't we?

All the best to you in 2020 sir.

Dwayne

Great post, Dwayne. Hope all is well with you and yours!

Jordan;
Happy New Year to you and yours sir!

As always, you're too kind to a short old guy - but thanks kindly just the same.

We're doing okay for the most part thanks in that my good wife, our girls and their significant others are fine.

There's been a few other hurdles in life - my mother passed last spring Jordan, but as she'd been a dementia patient it was a blessing and answer to prayer that she finally went home. My much loved mother in law is also a dementia patient and looks to have the landing gear down now, but one never knows.

Somehow when the mind looses focus, humans can go into an "auto pilot" sort of mode and aren't as capable of willing themselves to pass into the next life.

This is a personal observation of course Jordan and needs to be taken as such - my medical license is on the wall right beside all the rest of me degrees....

Because for several years I was the HR/Safety Mgr of a local manufacturing plant and as well then looking after aging parents, we got a fairly good cross section with the different areas of medical care locally.

While I can't say what it's like anywhere else, we're lagging far, far behind where we could or should be with senior care here in the Okanagan. That said, I've heard absolute horror stories from folks in the Atlantic provinces, so I don't believe it's a local issue whatsoever.

Thanks again sir and all the best to you and yours in 2020.

Dwayne

Thank's Dwayne The biggest problem down here is not finding good doctors or hospitals, We have some of the best in the world. The big problem is rising costs for drugs and medical care. To keep there premiums reasonable a lot of folks ,are going with deductibles 5000$ to 10,000$. That's pretty easy to hit with one major surgery. Add the drug costs and it can really get crazy. A lot of plans don't cover chemo drugs for cancer. We have people filing bankruptcy because of medical bills.

I'm not gonna say don't go to Canada to buy insulin but you can bet your ass if it becomes mainstream enough americans will screw canadians by doing it and the cost of insulin will sky rocket for everyone.

You know whats messed up about canada? junkies get free needles and diabetics gotta pay for them. Canada sucks, most of the time.

A Canadian druggist can not fill a prescription from a US doctor.

The medical system will vary from province to province as its actually ran by the provinces. Here in BC the biggest bitch is waiting times for certain treatments. I've been lucky with my health so don't have much real info there but I know of people waiting several months to get an MRI or ultra sound to check out what could be something serious. Hip and knee replacements same thing, might take several months. Having said that most people I know say things have been improved in that regard a lot in the last decade or so.

I'd sum it up this way.. if you have a heart attack, cancer or similar very serious situation you will be treated and you will be treated pronto and to a very high quality. If you require more diagnostics because of a not proven serious situation you might be waiting. I think this last bit is a function of too big of a system with too much red tape and they can't keep up with changing technology fast enough as say a 50 doctor private clinic state side. Also its not "free" everyone pays a monthly fee whether out of your pocket, employer picks up the tab or its included with your welfare cheque. The reason people bitch up here over the US system is there's generally no wait if you have the cash and some Canadians do go state side and pay rather than wait for certain treatments.

In the original post the question was whether or not there was a "consensus" - and I would have to say without any reservations that there is an absolute, clear, and unequivocal consensus in Canada that socialized medicine is a good thing. Dissenters please point out ONE successful politician in Canada who thinks we should adopt the USA system. They don't exist. Not one. I will add that I wish there was a way to integrate "user pay" and "pay to get in the front of the line" medicine, versus what we have now. Pay for service is specifically outlawed. Allowing it would take pressure off the system, and would benefit socialized medicine because doing so doesn't cost the socialized system anything. But the unpalatable part of Canadian medicine is - NOBODY is special.That offends a lot of folks who have money. Me too when I take time to think and actually admit it. I admit we have too much bureaucracy, not enough efficiency, not enough reward for excellence. But almost everyone gets what they really need. Of course there are exceptions. That's what USA TV advertisements prey on. They are selling something. They are making money from your fears. I am proud that my country supports everyone, regardless of their ability to pay, each person has their constitutional right to life and health. Canada doesn't always get it completely right, and we have much to learn. But we're trying. I like our system because we have a functioning society and we take care of each other.

Totally depends on the province then whether you live in a big centre or rural. Rural is long wait times in clinics and having to travel to see specialists. Some provinces have both public and private for various procedures. Vancouver BC has hip / knee replacement private clinics as does Montreal PQ. Sask and BC have a partnership with private providers for other services as well. When I needed knee surgery in Alberta the public system was a 1 year + wait. I paid for my own MRI and sent the diagnosis to a BC clinic and they could do the operation in 4 weeks (cost was in my mind reasonable). The impediment to public / private partnerships is provincial governments. Any government that is left leaning is against this system. The system we do have does work and if you have a serious issue (friend just had a triple by-pass) there is no questioning on the cost --- you are in done and full rehab without having to provide your mortgage certificate. So the system works but has flaws and use of partnership for private clinics could reduce wait times. The mental health system in Alberta sucks and private is the way to go but you have to be able to afford this. Over the last couple of years there has been some press with a few politicians in the east going down into the states for cancer treatment or heart operations --- so perhaps they do not want to be treated by the people they are taxing to death. :-)

Dude you live in SASK and they have a 1 for 1 system with MRI/CT scans. For every 1 paid out of pocket scan the next in line in 1 "free" scan. That was around with Brad Wall.

Jason Kenney in AB is successful and he's on the way to allow people to pay out of pocket. If you disagree with JK being successful you're likely a Liberal IMO.

Ask yourself this, why should a country hold its citizens hostage to a broken medical system? If you have the means you should be able to pay your own way. Canada is the only socialized healthcare country that doesn't allow private medical care. Even the cucks in the UK and Australia allow this and europe too.

Also ask yourself why people with money go to the USA or Mexico for treatments? What price and wait time do you put on your own life or the lives of those you love?

If you don't mind sharing what was the cost of the knee procedure in BC?

Knee has partial ACL tear, torn cartilage and bad tears on the meniscus --- procedure was to trim out the torn meniscus and from memory around $6K.

If it meant going back to work early I would totally pay that cost on the LOC. Easier to make money at work than not work at all.

Has being outside Canada been brought up? As I understand it a Canadian is not covered. You have to buy travel

insurance, or take your chances?

Agreed. Also the pain factor -- so you go for a year plus in limited mobility which affects your life in other ways and discomfort or you move forward quickly.




This depends if it is an emergency when you are travelling and if you have a private plan. Yes up here we have private plans that for some through work that cover medical in other countries for emergencies. Not everyone needs travel insurance. However if the procedure can be done in Canada and you travel to the US to get it done you are fully on your own. When I retired I was given an option to take over payments on the private plan with travel coverage until I was 80. So the options can vary for individuals as well as not all employers may offer the same options. Even in retirement and with a public system there are differences depending on where you have worked and what you chose to carry or not for private insurance.

My thank's to everyone who replied. I don't know what the future holds for us south of the border. a lot of of people are starting to question our healthcare system. I know it doesn't seem right that a family should have to file bankruptcy, because of medical bills, or that a young family can't save to buy a house because of the cost of insulin.