God is described as having a friendly wager with His angel, Satan, giving instructions on how far Satan could go..
Exactly. Since "prayer" is conversing with God, satan, then"unbeliever" was then praying/conversing to/with God.
Well yes as the story goes there is exchange or conversation between the two..
But that does not mean there is such exhange between God and christians when they pray. Since most prayers fall flat, chances are the God they imagine isnt even listening.
Starman,
I think your point may be correct, it's quite possible, maybe even probable. Seems to me that there are a few biblical instances recorded wherein Jesus passed by folks that believed he could heal them. They probably cried out for his attention, and it seems he had other things on his mind. I'm at work (on lunch break), but later, if I'm feelin it, I might comment more about this.
"I'd rather have an Army of Asses led by a Lion, than an Army of Lions led by an Ass." (George Washington)
Someday he's going to be very, very sick, slowly dying as he gets old. It's going to be absolutely miserable. And he won't have any hope for anything better than trying to put a bullet in his own head. Because his suffering has no value, there's nothing redemptive about it, it's just gazing into the maw of blackness. He'll look back on his life and realize how senseless it was, just an automaton-like pursuit of temporary pleasure. The bad times will seem simply like failure. They won't have had any value. He might as well sucked on a bottle his entire life.
Nihilism is an ugly thing. Suicide is the Nihilist's only answer to suffering.
But I'm not a Nihilist. Atheism does not equal Nihilist.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Praying to Santa has the same statistical outcomes as praying to god, just saying...
Read The Case For Miracles. It proves this statement false.
Lee Strobel, really??
And in what journal was this peer reviewed by the scientific community?
This notion that only that which has been "peer reviewed" is true, or likely to be correct, is illogical, authoritarian nonsense. It utterly begs the salient question.
Tarquin,
That was my polite was of saying Lee Storbel is not credible as a source, and has a reputation for fabricating stories, as some allege he did for the above referenced book.
Since he treads upon the domain of science by claiming "miracles" in this book, it's reasonable to ask what real experts have to say. Of course in this instance the answer is nothing because Strobel would never willingly subject his work to that level of scrutiny.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Its not a matter of scoffing, just basic questioning of beliefs, healthy skepticism. The world is full of contradictory beliefs, each believer convinced that they have the truth, but logically, not everything that is believed to be true can be true.
This is a religious thread please refrain from applying logic.
Yep, logic applies to the physical, not necessarily the spiritual. If God were logical, asswholes would be able to get their proof and unbelievers would get into heaven too, by proof rather than by faith in HIM.
By necessity, natural is not the supernatural. Everlasting life is supernatural and can only be experienced by the spiritual. Horses and dogs have natural, not the spiritual presence those created in GODs image can experience. Those who strive to put Him first and live a spirit filled life are, of course, more in tune with their spirit presence and, I think, more able to have success in calling for miracles and getting prayer answered. Ergo, His saying that the prayers of a righteous man availeth much.
Last edited by jaguartx; 01/14/20.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
Satan wasn't a nonbeliever. He believed, all right. James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
They're under eternal punishment for their rebellion against God. They know full well who Jesus is and they know what's coming for them. Angels seem to have full access to God, even the fallen ones. In Job, Satan has the ability to approach God directly...for now.
The role of satan in Judaism is to fulfill gods plan, to do the will of God by playing the adversary. Doing exactly as God orders in the book of Job. Satan just refers to anyone playing the role of adversary. Christianity altered the idea and role of Satan.
Actually, the Jews stole the idea of Satan from the Zoroastrians during their time in Persia.
Not much is original, the Jews/Israelites borrowed a lot of ideas from surrounding cultures, Adam and Eve, the flood, etc...and the word 'satan' was at times used in reference to anyone who played the role of adversary.
Exactly. That one or two "miracles" against thousands who got prayed over but died anyway. The evidence of your God isn't what I'd call overwhelming. Or if he exists, he's a fickle and vindictive SOB.
People in Australia and Puerto Rico are praying their hearts out. They got nada.
“Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!”
― George Carlin
Yes,
That's a classic:
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Its not a matter of scoffing, just basic questioning of beliefs, healthy skepticism. The world is full of contradictory beliefs, each believer convinced that they have the truth, but logically, not everything that is believed to be true can be true.
This is a religious thread please refrain from applying logic.
Yep, logic applies to the physical, not necessarily the spiritual. If God were logical, asswholes would be able to get their proof and unbelievers would get into heaven too, by proof rather than by faith in HIM.
Rather strange criteria for entry into eternal paradise.
In sum, no empirical, scientifically rigorous evidence has ever been brought forth proving the power of prayer. And just think about it: if praying produced the prayed-for outcomes, no prayed-for mothers would ever die of breast cancer, no prayed-for teenagers would ever die on the operating table, no prayed-for dogs or cats would ever fail to return home, and tens of millions of praying people would never die from starvation resulting from a lack of rain. Three hundred million people have died from smallpox in the 20th century alone — clearly, all of their prayers, and their parents’ prayers, and their children’s prayers, and their spouses’ prayers, did not have the desired healing effect.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Its not a matter of scoffing, just basic questioning of beliefs, healthy skepticism. The world is full of contradictory beliefs, each believer convinced that they have the truth, but logically, not everything that is believed to be true can be true.
This is a religious thread please refrain from applying logic.
Yep, logic applies to the physical, not necessarily the spiritual. If God were logical, asswholes would be able to get their proof and unbelievers would get into heaven too, by proof rather than by faith in HIM.
Rather strange criteria for entry into eternal paradise.
Says you.
You'd want to tell us your plan for salvation and everlasting life I'm sure.
We are waiting.
Last edited by jaguartx; 01/14/20.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
18 percent of the patients who had been prayed for suffered major complications such as strokes or heart attacks, compared to only 13 percent of the patients who did not receive any prayers.
Wrong prayers or wrong God?.. or Gods will?
Such results dont sound like something christians would want to own.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
Its not a matter of scoffing, just basic questioning of beliefs, healthy skepticism. The world is full of contradictory beliefs, each believer convinced that they have the truth, but logically, not everything that is believed to be true can be true.
This is a religious thread please refrain from applying logic.
Yep, logic applies to the physical, not necessarily the spiritual. If God were logical, asswholes would be able to get their proof and unbelievers would get into heaven too, by proof rather than by faith in HIM.
Rather strange criteria for entry into eternal paradise.
Says you.
You'd want to tell us your plan for salvation and everlasting life I'm sure.
Its not a matter of scoffing, just basic questioning of beliefs, healthy skepticism. The world is full of contradictory beliefs, each believer convinced that they have the truth, but logically, not everything that is believed to be true can be true.
This is a religious thread please refrain from applying logic.
Yep, logic applies to the physical, not necessarily the spiritual. If God were logical, asswholes would be able to get their proof and unbelievers would get into heaven too, by proof rather than by faith in HIM.
Rather strange criteria for entry into eternal paradise.
Says you.
You'd want to tell us your plan for salvation and everlasting life I'm sure.
We are waiting.
I think your missing the whole point...
He's been doing that more and more lately.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
In sum, no empirical, scientifically rigorous evidence has ever been brought forth proving the power of prayer. And just think about it: if praying produced the prayed-for outcomes, no prayed-for mothers would ever die of breast cancer, no prayed-for teenagers would ever die on the operating table, no prayed-for dogs or cats would ever fail to return home, and tens of millions of praying people would never die from starvation resulting from a lack of rain. Three hundred million people have died from smallpox in the 20th century alone — clearly, all of their prayers, and their parents’ prayers, and their children’s prayers, and their spouses’ prayers, did not have the desired healing effect.
Blah blah blah...
Over 40 years of experiential faith and countless answered prayers. God is a daily, constant, immediate reality for me, every waking thought, every breath... mo real than real. This harping on atheism... I just cannot take it seriously. Grace awaken you.
Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
Its not a matter of scoffing, just basic questioning of beliefs, healthy skepticism. The world is full of contradictory beliefs, each believer convinced that they have the truth, but logically, not everything that is believed to be true can be true.
This is a religious thread please refrain from applying logic.
Yep, logic applies to the physical, not necessarily the spiritual. If God were logical, asswholes would be able to get their proof and unbelievers would get into heaven too, by proof rather than by faith in HIM.
Rather strange criteria for entry into eternal paradise.
Says you.
You'd want to tell us your plan for salvation and everlasting life I'm sure.
We are waiting.
Strawman. I make no claims about salvation or the criteria, merely pointing out that a rational lack of belief based on insufficient evidence to support a justified conviction of truth is an odd and trivial criteria to use for sorting those bound for damnation and eternal torment as opposed to those bound for eternal paradise.....even by human standards of justice and mercy.
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
JG,
Hope you are having a fine evening, but I must say, I find your quote of a verse so thickly dripping of Gnosticism quite humorous.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
