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Campfire Outfitter
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It’s really not that hard to domesticate a species. The Russians experimented with domesticating the fox. Didn’t take but a few generations, and they had a friendly fox with piebald coats and floppy ears...... https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...russian-experiment-in-fox-domestication/First, I reject the assertion that hunter gatherers of that era “did not have the resources” to be able to afford a “unproductive” experiment keeping a dog. Humans of that era were identical to modern humans, with the same social structure. Some guy, probably physically fit AND smart would be in charge of a pretty large group, and he’d have a need for a range of status symbols. Keeping a pet wolf would sure as heck impress itinerant salesmen and rival tribes. Can you imagine the stories around the campfires? No, a pet wolf would NOT be “unproductive”. Second, why the assumption that the dogs primary role was as a hunter? Wouldn’t it be much more logical that the primary role of the pet wolf was as an alarm / defense nature? If you are competing with other tribes for territory, caves, hunting grounds, having yourself a guard wolf to alert you to shenanigans, that would be one heck of an advantage. Probably not popular with the kumbaya crowd, but even today, far more dogs are protectors than hunters.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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It’s really not that hard to domesticate a species. The Russians experimented with domesticating the fox. Didn’t take but a few generations, and they had a friendly fox with piebald coats and floppy ears...... https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...russian-experiment-in-fox-domestication/First, I reject the assertion that hunter gatherers of that era “did not have the resources” to be able to afford a “unproductive” experiment keeping a dog. Humans of that era were identical to modern humans, with the same social structure. Some guy, probably physically fit AND smart would be in charge of a pretty large group, and he’d have a need for a range of status symbols. Keeping a pet wolf would sure as heck impress itinerant salesmen and rival tribes. Can you imagine the stories around the campfires? No, a pet wolf would NOT be “unproductive”. Second, why the assumption that the dogs primary role was as a hunter? Wouldn’t it be much more logical that the primary role of the pet wolf was as an alarm / defense nature? If you are competing with other tribes for territory, caves, hunting grounds, having yourself a guard wolf to alert you to shenanigans, that would be one heck of an advantage. Probably not popular with the kumbaya crowd, but even today, far more dogs are protectors than hunters. Wolves make very poor guardians of humans/properties, and poor alarm animals, too.
![[Linked Image from images7.memedroid.com]](https://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED555/651dcaab819c9.jpeg)
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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not saying its not possible hell i have a fox in my house, just saying you can't come to a conclusion from 26000 yr old tracks. Rog, I dunno at what age a grey fox matures, or if it does like a wolf does. Might possibly see some significant changes in behavior.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Campfire Outfitter
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The article says the small child (approximately 5'2" tall, how tall was an adult in those days?) was walking in the back of the deep cave with his buddy the wolf-dog. With no adult supervision? Nobody noticed him wandering off or went to search for him? So, this small child had enough wit about himself to carry a torch and also knew how to clean the torch and keep it going.
Wasnt all that long ago society allowed kids as young as six to work in attrocious condition coal mines. And society had many kids that through circumstance nobody really much cared about. 26,000 yrs ago i cant begin to imagine how kids were treated or what was normally expected of them. Might be reasonable to say they grew up fast In those tough times out of sheer necessity.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Does anyone really read starman posts?
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I should add, while you are subtracting from a wolf to get a dog, select for a smaller brain in the dog. This smaller brain may be responsible for the somewhat infantile behavior that persists ithroughout life in a dog and may also reflect the fact that life for dogs, nurtured and sustained as they are by humans, is not nearly as complex and difficult as it is for a wolf.
The other thing while we’re talking arrested development, make the teeth of dogs smaller and less sharp than they are in wolves, especially with respect to the canines.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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God bless Texas-----------------------
Old 300
I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull
Its not how you pick the booger..
but where you put it !!
Roger V Hunter
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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God bless Texas-----------------------
Old 300
I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull
Its not how you pick the booger..
but where you put it !!
Roger V Hunter
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Campfire Regular
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Are these the same scientists that have been trying to sell us that global warming chit ?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Birdy,
our whippet's teefers might be smaller, but they don't seem much duller.
Little rat/rabbit killing teeth. Might have been bred back to sharpness in back in Old Britannia.
Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Are these the same scientists that have been trying to sell us that global warming chit ? No, just the ones that are trying to sell humans and dogs existing 26000 years ago. Sheesh, there weren't even a world then. GEno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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What separates a dog from a wolf is a short stretch of identified DNA, which somehow imbues the dog with an ability to interpret human facial expressions and mannerisms. Wolves can’t, even if adopted as young pups.
That is an interesting tid bit. Also what makes wolfdog hybrids such a roll of the dice. Some turn out more doglike in behavior, other more like a wolf. The really dangerous ones start out dog like in behavior then at some point switch. While the prey drive can be an expensive liability, treating humans like they were rivals from another pack can be much more serious.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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There's no wolves in Australia. But there's dogs. Discuss quietly amongst yourselves..
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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Birdy,
our whippet's teefers might be smaller, but they don't seem much duller.
Little rat/rabbit killing teeth. Might have been bred back to sharpness in back in Old Britannia.
Geno Probly I shoulda just said “smaller”, but coyote and wolf canines both are like daggers.... https://texaswolfdogproject.org/resources/phenotyping/what-is-phenotyping/teeth
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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What I've found interesting is that dogs of the same basic size, from the same bloodlines, even the same litter, can have different size canines.
There's that dang diversity creeping up with its ugly head again I guess.
But yeah, in general, wild dogs do have larger canines than our domestic breeds.
Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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grey foxes are the most primitive form of canines more like cats.
God bless Texas-----------------------
Old 300
I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull
Its not how you pick the booger..
but where you put it !!
Roger V Hunter
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,526
Campfire Outfitter
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I saw the thread title and thought someone found where Poobs started training dogs.......timeline's about right......
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Campfire Outfitter
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Probably not popular with the kumbaya crowd, but even today, far more dogs are protectors than hunters.
The idea can be tossed around until the end of time, yeah it sounds all tralala and everything but the missing link is the proof. The story in the original post offers much less than any proof. If the childs tracks were found on top of the K9's and also the K9's on top of the childs all in the same length of walk, that could be the start of proof. It's not how the story goes, the story reads much like this thread. Short on proof and long on what a wonderful though.... Ancient man has been studied for years, asking for a little proof isn't out of the question...
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I saw the thread title and thought someone found where Poobs started training dogs.......timeline's about right...... Well, I wasn't going to say anything but didn't he invent the dog? Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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There's no wolves in Australia. But there's dogs. Discuss quietly amongst yourselves.. Yes, it is generally accepted that the dogs rode along on the same boats as the humans which it seems most likely originated from India. Or so I have read. Dutch, I read an extensive article in Nat'l Geo a couple years ago about that Russian Fox Fur Farm. It is interesting to note that the proprietor of the farm was sent to the Gulag. The study, or even mention of selection of the fittest, evolution, or Mendelian Inheritance in general was strictly forbidden by the Stalinists. Such data simply did not fit the Communist agenda of "everyone is equal in all respects".
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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