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Hello,
Standard forum introduction language:
New user, longtime lurker and such...

I had a question that I have not been able to resolve via search. Perhaps because the search string pulls up too much collateral information.

I am looking for a resource for factory ballistics data particularly for older products (before velocity and drop with range were included on the box).

For instance searching for Remington "High Velocity" factory load data for .300winmag has obvious issues as a search string.

I don't see legacy product info on Remington's site so if anyone knows of a resource,
(perhaps an old comparison article?) I would be most appreciative.

Regards,

Shooters' Bible or manufacturers' catalogs?

The “Remington Arms” site has ballistic charts for their ammo. I wouldn’t take it as gospel but it’s there.

I will look for a shooters bible.
Thanks Remguy. Do they include older products?
Edit: ok I see a library w/o an hour or so that has the'56 edition.

Navlav, I am actually looking for data on a discontinued line "High Velocity" copper jacketed, "skived" tip. Which I could not find on the Remington site. I am not sure what the period of production was.
I will keep digging...

'67 Shooters Bible does not show a 'skived tip'. They are all 'core lokt'. And the '56 doesn't show the .300 Win Mag. yet.

OldManoftheSea,

GUN DIGESTs are also good references for that sort of thing. Do you have an approximate date?

I also have a collection of American Riflemans going back to the 1920's, which might have some info--though the collection isn't as complete as the GDs.

Thanks FlintLocke.
You just saved me serious time. I was not thinking that .300WM was introduced in'63.
I say skived tip as the tip appears similar to a newer Federal Fusion round whose box calls it a skived tip.

Mule Deer,
Not certain of date, though they are of the " Kleenbore priming" era (per the box which is a relatively simple green and yellow design). I have a 50 round box of .22 golden bullets also labeled "high velocity" with a $1.99 price sticker on it. I would guess that box was acquired around 1985.
Monograph like ink stamp inside the .300wm box tab is OC6823. I assume this is some sort of batch number

If you look in Ken Water's Pet Loads, there are a lot of factory offerings that were tested by Ken.

Thanks Shaman
I will look for that one too.

The older Speer manuals used to have a list of advertised velocities of factory ammo along with Speer's figures from chronographing the same loads. I don't know if they still have such tables.

I have an extensive informal collection of cartridges and your query prompted me to go look at the earliest Remington's Kleanbore, green and yellow box with core lokt 180 bullets (sorry, 30-06, not .300 WM) and sure enough the juncture of the jacket and soft nose is noticeably and deliberately scalloped. Skived if you will.

Thanks Lotech

Flintlocke, thanks for looking and relating what you found.
The Kleenbore (seems to relate to the primers on mine) "High Velocity" rounds I have are 360 degree copper jacket right up to the flat tip where you can see the lead core.
I guess my perception of skived (based on the federal fusions) needs to be reevaluated.

From what I visualize from your response, skived is either the flower petal terminating of the copper jacket, or just five or six scallops around the tip of the round.
Any idea of the date of those core lot's?

Thanks again

Well found a 150 and 180 pointed core-lokt (pcl) and power point (ppl) source also 220 silver tip (ST) ('74 5th ed. George Nonte) Appendix "Ballistics for Standard Centerfire Ammunition Produced by Major U.S. Manufacturers" (maga)
Still nothing about "High Velocity" and of course my boxes say nothing about "Core-Lokt".
Hope this is useful to someone.

Figured would post the data
Wt. Muz 100. 200 300yd
150. 3400. 3050 2730 2430. Fps
180. 3070 2850 2640. 2440
220 2720. 2490 2270. 2060

I assume these are average numbers, or only accurate to tens of fps.
The 220 has a note Remington and Winchester only.

The 150 looks pretty hot, or optimistic. I heard the reduced the loads after the first few years.
Best

So the Remington website had the following data posted for Core-Lokt
Index. Wt. MV. 100yd. 200yd. 300yd. 500yd. BC
R300W1 (150gr) 3605 2897 2311 1823 1091 .294
R300W2 (180gr) 3601 2945 2463 2044 1375 .383

Anyone ever chronograph this stuff?
I find it hard to believe that they have a 20 percent higher muzzle velocity than the Federal Power-shock. Were the DuPont powders that much faster, or are these likely old hot load data before the manufacturers toned things down a bit? Looking through several current commercial 180gr cartridge loads Hornady is the only one over 3000fps

Fed-PS. (180gr) 2960 2746 2542 1982. .439
Hdy-SST (180gr) 3145 2850 2780 2220. .481

Thx

So TBS reports the current core-lokt loads at MV of:
150gr. 3290
180gr. 2960

So perhaps the Remington loads were reduced as the initial Olin/Winchester factory loads were. Though the original Olin loads were only reported at 3400, 3070 : 150, 180..

So now the question is when did the loads get reduced? Before or after "High Velocity" was dropped from the packaging...(since it seems that was just a trade name..)?

Higher velocity figures were maybe shot with a 28" barrel.
Used to be pretty common, IIRC.

Ah good information...
Thanks MS

They were probably never up to published speeds. In those days, very few people outside of the gun industry had chronographs, so the guys in the marketing department had more influence on what figures got published than the guys in the lab. Unless you chronograph those loads yourself, you’re really comparing marketing strategies rather than actual velocities.

Ken Waters chronographed a lot of factory ammo and noted the results in his articles. You’d be surprised how many of them were a LOT slower than what the ammo maker claimed.


Okie John

Thanks Okie John.

Ken Waters pet loads is one of the books on my list, as suggested by some helpful soul here.

I suppose if they were really that fast NOS would sell at a big premium, (or discount) depending on how the buyer viewed the effects of the pressure required to generate that speed..