Home Forums Reloading Handgun Reloading 357 Magnum - Reccomend a black bear defense load

I’d like to hear your opinions on the 357 load you would use for black bear defense. The gun is a 4” Ruger GP100, if that matters.

I loaded some Cast Performance 180gr WNFPGC bullets with a max charge of H110 for hog protection. I haven't used them on an animal but they sure hit steel swingers hard out of my M65 4". I know an avid bear hunter and he doesn't recommend HPs for bear. In his experience they didn't penetrate deep enough.

https://www.grizzlycartridge.com/shop/cast-performance-bullets/38-180gr-wfngc-358-dia-100-count/

Please use soft points for bears.

158 LSWC or the aforementioned CP 180’s. I have a box of the CP 180’s on the bench but haven’t gotten around to loading them. Alliant 300-MP works pretty well. If you want a jacketed bullet, either a plain 158 flat point or the Hornady 158 fp hp (not the regular xtp version but the fp version). The Hornady fp version is designed for less expansion and more penetration plus higher velocities. That being said, I’ve not shot a bear with any of them...

I'd probably load a 158gr Speer jacketed soft point over 15.5 gr of H110.

Thanks gentlemen. Please keep the suggestions coming.

I’m curious to know the difference between using a soft point and hard cast for this application. I figured on using a hard cast, but it sounds like a soft point is preferred by some of you.

Trade for a 44 mag Redhawk. Seriously.

I just prefer jacketed bullets, in all applications.

And I would also prefer a 44 mag if bear defense was my aim. Make mine a vintage Smith.

Never shot a black bear, but if I were to load my 357 mag revolvers for them, it'd be with a damn big charge of H-110 under a 180gr XTP, I don't think a black bear could contain one.

I do not understand needing a defense load for black bears. I have lived around them my entire life and never seen one to worry about. Last fall the neighbor lady (a couple hundred yards away) asked me to get rid of some raccoons that were tearing up her bird feeders so I set out a camera. The first thing I see on it was a 450 lb bear. I told her I was not going to trap it and shoot it. I did get rid of 11 raccoons and she lives with the bear like I do. One comes every spring and tears up the bird feeders so we put them away for a week and there's peace and harmony in the universe. Once on the farm I did load a rifle and go out to make sure the one eyeing up the boar hog changed his mind. Other than that one the worst behavior I have seen out of them is ripping down trail cams. Around here they are just inoffensive varmints. Large varmints to be sure, but nowhere near the PITA a red squirrel is let alone gophers. I am 72 now and I have never ever seen one that didn't leave as soon as it found out I was not friendly, and that includes sows with cubs.

I might consider that, someday... either a 44 mag or a 41 rem mag

I won't try to make you understand. But I will say that, in 24 years of archery hunting in Colorado, I've never had to draw my gun on a bear either (I have been close, however). I've also never had a reason to draw my concealed handgun in town.

I don't plan on giving either of them up, regardless of the odds.

Thanks for the help.

I walked up on a big boar last year, surprised both of us at 25 yards. He eyeballed me, ripped a little rotted stump out of the ground and stuck his nose in the dirt, snuffed and very slowly walked a semi circle around me. His route took him downwind which I thought should be a good thing, but he just layed down on a huge downed log and stared me down. Hell, I thought bears ran when they encountered a human. Especially with a good whiff of human scent. This old boy just didn't give a crap. The Glock 10mm and 220 gr. hardcast was in hand... just in case.

Pretty sure I saw that same bear during archery deer season. He fed on acorns behind me about 80 yards. When he got my scent stream he threw his nose up and sucked some air and stared my direction for awhile. I was in a climbing treestand and about 20' up and I'm sure he never saw me. But even after catching my scent that boar bear just continued feeding along, and away thankfully. But walking out that direction in dark 1\2 mile with the climber on my back and no handgun caused me to consider packing something with me afterward. Especially considering bumping wild hogs is fairly common for me also. As said above, I carry concealed in town so I see no reason not to pack while in the woods.

Elk,

I'd just take my standard load.

158gr Nosler HP over a max load of 2400.


Well, actually, I'd take my .44 mag or 10.5" are pistol, but in a .357, I'd just take old reliable for the little blackie's we have here.

The 44 bores definitely kill better than the 357 bores.

But if a 357 is all you got, to me the only real debate is between a bonded 158 and a soft 180. I lean soft 180 but it's sort of what your gun likes.

There's also the debate between soft nose and hardcast but having whacked a few deers with hardcast 357 at pistol velocity, it ain't real impressive and they went a long way and they also didn't react much to the shot and then taking them apart it looked like they got poked with a hole punch. Damage was exactly caliber sized damage. That was with 180gr hardcast from a 4" barrel at 1150 fps. I think it might be different with a .429 or .452 diameter bullet that is driven fast but not in the ole 36 bore. In a 36 bore go expanding.

You said "defensive use" and for me, that means penetration to break bones like shoulders or through bone to reach the cns. Lung shots, blood trails, dont really matter in a defensive situation, it will all be over by then. While I carry a 10mm or heavy loaded 45 Colt, my wife carries a .357 with 180 grain Cast Performance hard cast fn, over a stiff load of w296. I have no doubt the .357 will do the job on black bear.

While rare, black bear attacks do happen. A fellow across the canyon was hunting with his uncle, the uncle using a rifle wounded a good size bear (for Idaho) about 3 years ago. The bear turned on him and did a pretty good job of chewing on an arm and leg, severely injuring him. The guy pulled his handgun and killed the bear...he used a .357.

https://www.kivitv.com/news/boise-hunter-recovering-from-bear-encounter

They usually don't get big when they act like that.....I carry a 4" 686 when bowhunting bears. I have a stiff load of MP300 (17.5gr? need to verify) and some 158gr FP XTP's It's stout. Shoot a cylinder full of those and that about enough fun. Have not shot anything bigger than a rock chuck with them but do think they would be a decent deterrent. Actually the only time we had to shoot was when it got dark after a buddy bow shot and skinned a bear. Could hear another huffing in the brush and trees about 30 yards away. A couple shots into the side of the mountain and he was gone like he was shot from a cannon.

I should add that back when we ran hounds that I (and nearly everyone) carried a 44mag. S&W 629 8 3/8 with the Keith load of 24gr of 296 and a 240gr flat point. Would likely do so again if I thought I was actually going to hunt them with a handgun.

Centershot, we don't have a bear season - yet. It is coming soon, within a few years for sure. Our bear population is well over the stated management goals for an established population. About double actually. The conservation department just finished a lengthy study of the bear population and has proposed a limited draw bear hunt in the very near future. The MDC just announced a limited draw elk hunt for this fall. The first elk hunt in modern times in the Missouri Ozarks. Maybe when the bears get hunted they won't be quite so bold.

Miles I was of like mind for years myself, until I had a big Boar decide the dead steer he was feeding on wasn't big enough for both of us. I admit I startled him but there was no doubt of his intent. came at me from about 30 yards. I backpeddled as fast as I could ,tripped over a cotton wood log and broke my left leg going down. when he showed his head over the log I gave him 210grains of 41 mag through the bottom jaw and out the top of his skull. the skull measured 6 9/16x11 3/16.
darn thing cost me $16k in hospital bills and never touched me.
in the words of Robert Rouark " carry enough gun".
that said I would use the stoutest load that gp100 can handle under a hardcast wide nosed bullet. you are looking for penetration of either the skull( bad idea) or as deep into the body as you can get.
carry enough gun and as much luck as you can muster. it only takes one sore head to ruin your year or three!

Holy Damn! now there's a voice of experience, glad you gave that sob a couple extra holes in his head, hope the leg healed 100%.

This is like saying you don’t see the need for seatbelts, air bags, or helmets because you have never personally needed one.

I like 357’s . Today I own six 357 revolvers. Never killed a bear with anything. But I have killed hogs and deer with a 357. I think I would want a larger caliber. Hasbeen

nope! that was 25 years ago and it hurts right now. youngsters (like I was then) think we will heal up and just have a story to tell . those old injuries come back to haunt you. still I have been glad for 25 years I was packing the Blackhawk that day.
I have faced down a couple more over the years including a very upset sow with triplets .luckily I made so many weird noises it confused her, I remember someone in my vicinity screaming like a little girl. she came within 15 yards and then remembered her babies. you could see the light bulb come on in her eyes. that day I only had a stick and string.i backed out backwards for about 100 yards and discovered i'd dropped my bino's. left them till the next day never went out bow hunting again without a sidearm.
today what with the wolves crowding us I carry a 300 blackout AR pistol everywhere, especially when I walk my Dog. gives me 30 rounds of persuasion.

didn't mean to hijack the thread with war stories. but I haven't reloaded a 357 in 20 years. my wife carries a sp101 and I loaded up some 158 hard for her . but that was 20 years or so and I loaded 250 rounds. she shoots 24 rounds about every 5 years so don't need to load anymore for a while.

I would be a lot happier with a 44 Mag & a hard cast 245 gas checked SWC over a max charge of W296 or H110.

180 xtp over.a max charge.of h110 or
160 hard cast over 7.5 grains of unique.
Both very accurate out of.my 4" sp 101.

Well crap, that's too bad about your leg, and not my thread of course, but I've never thought hands on experience was hi-jacking/derailing any thread, I'm glad you shared your experience.

Allways liked the 358429 Keith style swc in my k frames and the 358156 in my n's my L will shoot either though. More playing around with hotter jacketed loads to do as I just scored a super nice clean 1982 vintage model 1894 Marlin in 357 mag. I'd probably look real hard for a good heavy bullet load for bear protection. MB

S&W 686+ 3" barrel, 180 gr XTP @ 1100 fps. Never had a bear problem, but they roam around my neighborhood.

I’d pick a good bonded bullet or hardcast bullet, 158 gr or heavier, and drive it fast. Find something that is combat accurate in your gun.

You want something with plenty of penetration. Your job is to put the bullets where they’ll work.

when I’m in black bear country, which is often, I carry a .40 S&W with a 5” barrel loaded with 180 gr hardcast.

I don’t think 44 magnum level loads are required for black bear defense.

Deerstalker - that is quite a story & very noteworthy! That's something that should be published in a magazine! Glad you came out of it "okay", even though the pain continues to this day.

As for the 357 loads, thanks to everyone for the input. I did load up some 180 xtp bullets driven by H110 powder. It's a very stout load, but still manageable. I think these loads will be very adequate for black bear defense.

BUT, in the meantime, I did pick up a 5" Smith and Wesson 629 (44 mag). I've always wanted a pre-lock 5" 629, and it just worked out that I found one at the right time for the right price. Obviously, it's the clear winner in caliber, but I think the 4" 357 will still be my daily companion in the woods. The 44 will get to come out (in a chest holster) when there's a dead animal on the ground, with a VERY good chance that a bear has also found the kill site.

Again, thanks for all of the input.

Buy a bigger gun....

Remember the old joke about filing off the front sight?

I have owned 3 44 mag revolvers and one 44 mag rifle. I have only one single pistol today: a 357 magnum sp101 trail gun with a 4" barrel.

At 28 oz, it goes with me everywhere, all season. In my parka pocket, it's especially usual to protect the dog team and I against grumpy moose that won't leave the trail. They stomp dog teams every year. I can run the sled up the hill with that revolver in my parka pocket like it's not even there.

With my 158 grain fmj/alliant unique loads I have shot beaver, snow shoe hare, ruffed grouse, spruce grouse, ptarmigan and sharp tail grouse.

I like a little expansion and cannot use hard cast, for fear of over penetration of a moose stomping the team and hitting a dog.

My other load is a 180 grain swift A-frame at 1200 fps for everything else.

From small game, to home defense, to bear defense, to winter moose defense, to concealed carry, the compact little S&W model 60's and Ruger SP 101's are the mighty mouse of versatility.

For years now, I'm a one handgun owner.

I read an article written by AK guide, Tia Shoemaker. She carries a 5 shooter 357 mag guiding bear hunters.

I would step up to a 41. I base that on my experience whitetail hunting. But, if it had to go 357, I’d take a hard cast gas checked LWFN and all the H110 I could stuff under it, then I’d aim for bone.

My good buddy lives in a very remote part of Northern British Columbia, near our summer cottage. They regularly have all kinds of wildlife on their doorstep. They keep large dogs in the yard, to keep the bears and cougars and wolves away from their livestock and poultry. The lady of the "estate" is not a gun person, and feels a single shot .410 is about as big and as complicated as she can handle, and she prefers not to carry that on her walks either. So one fine late summer day three years ago she goes for a walk with her Doberman, St. Bernard and Saluki hound. Checked out the Blueberry and Saskatoon bushes on a nice south facing slope. A black bear came charging in from the side of the trail, grabbed and killed the rather fast and agile Saluki right in front of her. One bite, a quick shake, and done. Bluffed and threatened the other two dogs and her, as they retreated.

A week later, she wanted to go for a walk and asked her husband to come along because she wasn't feeling secure. Told him to bring a gun. He thought she was being paranoid, and didn't really want to carry his Marlin .35, but agreed finally to take his ruger 4" .357 revolver loaded with those silly little Hornady 140 gr. Leverevolution cartridges. Not legal to carry, but where they live there is pretty much no law, only your conscience. As soon as they approached the berry patch, what was likely the same medium sized boar bear charged out and tried to attack the surprised St. Bernard as the Doberman prepared to fight. A quick draw, one shot and it was done. Buddy didn't describe exactly where he hit that bear, but said it was about 30-40 meters away, and one shot was all it took.

So bring what ya got, and shoot straight. Sometimes ideal doesn't matter, just having something in your hands is better than nothing.

Castnblast,
Not surprising that the expanding bullet from the 357 mag put a quick end to the aggressive black bear.

I choose the 180 swift over hard cast. It's a deep penetrating bullet that hangs very close to the penetration of the buffalo bore 180 grain hard cast.

The buffalo bore stuff leaves the brass stuck in my little five shooter. No thanks to that madness.

The Barnes Vortex ammo in 357 Mag with 140 XPB bullets penetrate WAY our of their league. Many XPB bullets open up like a parachute and impede penetration. Both the 180 gr in 41 Rem Mag and 140 gr in 357 Mag, fold back all the way and keep on driving DEEP!

I carry two loads for this depending on what's on hand. One is the 158 gr. Hornady FP/XTP with 15.5 gr. H110, the other is Federal American Eagle 158 gr. factory ammo. I don't know if they work well, and if I never find out that is just fine.

Have any of you shot deer or bear with either of these two bullet from a pistol?

Follow up on the 180 grain A frame: I purposely loaded down to 900 fps and shot into green birch logs. Bullet expanded to 51 caliber and weighed 178.5 grains. It traveled through 11.5" of green birch. With all that shank and very controlled expansion, these things track straight. 35 cal isn't ideal for hard cast because they lack diameter. The swift gives yah a smidgen of expansion, but not enough to prevent them from penetrating like a freight train. Dmn good revolver bullet for the 357 mag trail gun.

Mainer, what's your normal load with the 180 Swift in the SP101? I'm thinking that little 5 shooter is the perfect revolver for a young man's first handgun, given the load versatility. I'm also thinking that bullet is the perfect one to work up to for some serious work. Even at 1050, I reckon it would shine.

I noted with due interest in the 2018 Hodgon manual that the 357 pistol loads and 357 rifle loads were virtually the same so a ammo mix up would not result in a blown up pistol. I don't really want to load down the Marlin 1894 to less than it's capability but sure don't need any whomp and stomp loads run thru my " K" smiths either. My "L" and "N's" can handle the hotter loads if needed but "K" frame Smiths sure make lighter weight trail guns. I picked up 2 boxes of the 180 gr .357 xtp Hornady pistol bullets for use in the Marlin and have both 296 and H110 on the shelf. The other day I tried some 357's I had loaded with 9.5 grs Blue Dot and the Lyman Thompson bullet 358156 gas checked, in the Marlin, they showed promise for inexpensive shooting. MB

PA, I just go book max: 15 grains lil gun for exactly 1200 fps. Brass drops out as
If they were 38 special.

What good is a revolver with 5 stuck cases? That 180 buffalo bore stuff is not for me.

Regarding the sp 101: they are crude and require at least a thousand rounds of shooting and some parts as well.

Grip is worthless. Gotta go pachmeyer. Your middle finger knuckle gets bit hard by the trigger housing when firing 180s.

Springs: the pull in double or single action is absurd. Gotta go lighter on springs if your gonna take aim at that ruffed grouse 20 yards off, or that beaver swimming about. Missing on tasty food will really piss yah off.

Sights are too big for precise work. Not many choices so went with a little burris fast fire on an allchin mount.

Good info Mainer, thanks. Do you have a pic of your set up handy? It seems the universal opinion on these is a spring change. I’ll check out the pachmyer grips. I’ve come to really like the hogues or smith and wesson grips that are secured by a screw through the bottom. I put an eyed screw there in order to attach a retractable lanyard to prevent losing the gun. It’s saved the day twice so far. I’ll also check out the allchin mount, never heard of that one.

PA, I apologize for the late reply.

I do not own a 22 rifle, nor 22 handgun. After the rimfire shortages and all the dirt-bag fear buyers hoarding all the 22 rimfire ammo, I gave up. I sold off all my 22s and gave away all my 22 ammo to kids who couldnt find any in the stores.

All my small game work is precise stuff, 158 grain speer tmj/alliant unique handloads are as accurate as they come. At exactly 1000 fps, they don't damage any meat. Even small pests like red squirrels end up with a clean hole.

I really like the little burris fast fire. Turn it on and forget about it. Last picture is after I overhauled the stock pistol new parts. I also re-countered some metal off the bottom of the barrel to get balance proper. Groups immediately cut in half, misses now a rare occurrence.

I've got you by 2 years, and for 50+ years every black bear that I encountered turned tail and ran away as soon as they saw me. So did a couple of grizzlies. The abut 15 years ago one of our Forest Service trail crews was clearing a trail and the lead worker was attacked by a black bear. After the initial attack he climbed higher up a tall fir tree than I thought was possible. Then every time he yelled for help, the bear climbed up the tree and bit his feet and legs.

I was in the area and heard of the attack on my radio. I met our FS LEO and a Deputy Sheriff at the trailhead. The LEO gave me his AR-15 and the three of us went up the trail. We got to the tree where the attacked trail worked had climbed at least an hour after the initial attack, and the bear immediately charged us. The three of us shot almost in unison and killed the bear. When we checked the bear we saw that it was a female.

We then got the injured worker out of the tree and other help arrived, including a helicopter from Yellowstone NP. I then noticed a little black cub of the year running through the brush and up a tree. I immediately realized that the crew member had worked between the mother bear and her cubs. She hadn't left the area probably because she couldn't gather up her cubs.

I thought that with the mother dead, someone would say the cub wouldn't survive and want to shoot it, so I climbed up the tree with it and drug it out. He was only a few months old, but he had very sharp teeth and claws. I had a tight two hand hold on him for over an hour until the FWP bear biologist arrived with a 5 gallon plastic bucket that he could carry him out in. The next day FWP went back there with dogs and found another cub. They took the two cubs to a wildlife rehab center in Helena, and released the cubs back in the woods two years later.

So back to the OP's question on a .357 magnum load for black bear defense, when I carried a .357 in bear country, I had it full of 158 grain hard cast gas checked SWC bullets over a full charge of 2400. Most of the time when I carried a bear defense pistol it was either my 1911 .45 acp or one of my .44 magnums. I have killed two black bear with those pistols (not in defense) using my home cast bullets. Both were one shot kills and neither bear ran over 10 yards after I shot them.

Tagged for a deer load.

I'd load heavy cast bullets

I'd buy some 180 hard cast from Buffalo Bore and get some 180 coated from Missouri Bullet for practice. Both shoots well in my Smith 66 4" . I don't feed it those as a steady diet, but it behaves nicely when I do. Hold tight. You don't need expansion with a bear, you need penetration. That's why the hardcast are prescribed.

Great news on the 629. One I'd enjoy having, too.

I think it was jjhack that told me not to use the hard cast in the 357. He said it took too long to kill. After talking with him I went to the 158 xtp. At 1200 fps or under it expands some but still penetrates pretty well because it doesn't over expand.

Bb

Bear defense isn't bear hunting. I don't think you could go wrong with any stout bullet of at least 158 grains. I have some 185 WFNGC, some 205 WLN, and some 235 WLN that I carry for bear defense and hunting when I carry a 357 My favorite is the 235 at 1050-1100 out of a 6" barrel. It is cast soft enough that it rivets and expands enough turn into a cylinder, and shoots through many feet of tissue and bone. It has claimed one very huge corn-fed moose, an old dry cow that was delicious.