Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters What can you do with a 280 that you cant with a 270

Muledeer was asked why he'd shoot a Mossberg patriot.
He said:
But I also often try rifles that most snobs would refuse to consider. Have always figured my job involved actual journalism, not just shooting certain rifles that are "correct" among some rifle loonies, whether the loonies tend to prefer "classic" or "modern." As a result, I have learned quite a bit of unexpected information.

That made me smile.

Why shoot a Mossberg? Why not?

As a gunsmith I can say something here that will be like trowing a cherry bomb into a toilet, but the statement is true.
I would take a Mossberg over a Remington M700. The Mossberg action is one I trust more. I have had to replace 1 broken (actually lost so I assume it broke) extractor on a Mossberg, and quite a few on Remingtons. I have also seen many Remingtons with the trigger problems come to my shop for replacement and in the last 50 years I have had to re-solder the bolt handles onto about 50 Remingtons when they came off.

The Mossberg is not as slick and the bolts wobble a lot when opened. Overall to my eyes the Mossberg is not as pretty as the Remington.

But the extractors are the "T Head" type and so if they break they are easy and very cheap to fix. They have the separate bolt head so they center up well, and the bolt handles can't break or come off the bolt as I have seen many Remingtons do.
Their triggers are safe and not "prone to get the maker successfully sued".
The accuracy seems to be quite good in the ones I have shot.

I hate the fact that in both the Mossberg and the newer Remingtons, the safety does not lock the bolt shut, but on my Mossberg MVP I made a modification to do just that.

Overall I rate the Remington prettier, but the Mossberg more reliable, and the Patriots are an excellent value for a rifle in today's market.
I don't think of them as being on the same level as a custom Mauser, a Winchester Controlled feed M70 or even a Ruger 77 Mk2 for reliability, but I say the same thing about the M700s too. For a push feed action I think the Patriot is the best value out there.

If I were to rate all the push-feed rifles you can buy today at most gun-shops I rate the Howa as the best of the lot for design, but the Mossberg as the best value for the dollar.

I detest the lack of a bolt lock on many modern bolt actions. Can you add a bolt lock to a Mossberg for me? I don't own one but the wood stock versions are pretty nice for the money.The only thing missing is the bolt lock.

I tend to use Rugers,Winchesters,and Howas becasue they all feature 3 position safeties which of course include a bolt lock.

My neighbor bought a slightly used Mossberg Patriot .270 WSM and put a Zeiss Conquest 4-12 scope on it and killed a big 12 point buck in Saskatchewan, I think, this past November. He shot it at 325 yards D.R.T. My son in law has one in .30-06 that I like. Nothing wrong with a Mossy.

Yes indeed.
The 284 + 120 NBT = A lotta Whitetail steak.

Didn't read the whole thread but I always think that it is interesting that Jack O'Conner's last custom rifle by the Bieson's was a 280. Unfortunately he passed away before the rifle was finished. I wonder where it is now or if anyone has photos of it?

Thanks!

I quit jumping around .060, must have killed any positive results. Need to try again, along with the 270 in Nosler 150g lrab.

I have worked with one patriot wood stock rifle in 308, got 3/8" groups pretty quick with 155g Scenar with R#15 and Varget. There are some things to like about this action.

I also recently purchased a Mossberg Patriot in 6.5CM (the cerakote version)--a black friday special for $320 all in. I was a little tired of my teenage boys being a little rough on my "nice" rifles. I topped the Mossberg with a Cabelas Instinct (Meopta) 3-9x40. My first range session with 120gr Speer Hot Cors yielded a <1" group at 100yds. Needless to say, I'm very happy with it.

358WSM: I have a lot of Rifles including several in caliber 270 Winchester and one in 270 WSM.
I also greatly enjoy my Rifles in 280 Remington, 7mm08 and 7mm Remington Magnum!
I say own'em all and use'em all.
Its fun and rewarding.
By the way, I think there is NO definitive correct or incorrect answer to your initial query.
So I'll add this regarding that - don't let the sound of your own wheels make you crazy!
Long live the Second Amendment.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
P.S.: I do believe that the fine folks at Winchester Repeating Arms Company back in 1923 developed the 270 Winchester cartridge JUST to make closet homosexuals, in the future, doubt there masculinity!
He-he.
Good job Winchester people.

AFAIK,the rifle you are referring to is in the hands of Henry Kaufman.

keith,

You're welcome. With all the new bullets these days, it's getting so I'm trying MUCH deeper seating a lot of the time--and sometimes it even works!

I also have a Mossberg Patriot in .308 which shoots VERY well--though right now it's on loan to the daughter of a friend, who needed a light rifle that's sufficient for elk....

John

I have a Mossberg Patriot in 6.5 CM. It is a functional rifle, maybe the quintessential truck gun that we all long to find. Cheap to buy, accurate to shoot, and won't be missed for long if it is lost or stolen. Maybe expendable is a good way to categorize it.

Well JOC isn't here to tell us so.....

I've thot of this before I'm wondering.......

he had all the custom 270s he wanted so do something different or FOR someone in the family ?

don't know of course.


Jerry

shoot 7mm bullets

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Well JOC isn't here to tell us so.....

I've thot of this before I'm wondering.......

he had all the custom 270s he wanted so do something different or FOR someone in the family ?

don't know of course.


Jerry[/quote]

Bradford O'Conner has made a few posts on here I was hoping he would see this maybe. But I guess the BS might have soured him on the fire. I believe it was on a Ruger action, if so another departure for JOC. I looked at the Biesen web sight and Paula has done a good job of updating it. Check out her rifle here: http://www.biesen.com/ it doesn't mentioned what caliber but I would bet that it is a .270.

Elkhunter

You may very well be right. I have attended about half the recent fundraiser weekends (held in mid-June) for the Jack O'Connor Heritage Center in Lewiston, and one of the highlights is a small "gun show," with maybe 30 tables. Many of the rifles are not for sale, because they're ex-O'Connor rifles (both Jack's and Eleanor's) shown by their present owners. Henry Kaufman has been there, and we met and had several interesting conversations. I might have seen that very rifle on his table the first time I attended, in 2014.

Am going to be checking with Brad about various things soon, and will ask him.

JB and Jordan,

I am enjoying the discussion you two are having about drift at 400.

One comment that I'd like to make, if you will, is about "shootable" wind for many/most hunters. I'm not talking West Tex, Wyoming, Montana, or maybe Alberta where it often blows hard, but a ~5 MPH wind. Or put another way, "Out to what distance, do you not need to hold for wind?" Target could be a 12" plate or elk vitals.

I've shot with a bunch of friends, co-workers, etc. And have coached many, although I am not any sort of shooting instructor. When asked the above question, they just stare at me. Then check their paper DOPE or app. My answer to them is, "400 yards". This applies to many big game hunting cartridges. At least for hitting our 12" plates with room to spare. If there is a breeze, just hold dead-on and pull the trigger. Don't worry about the wind whether shooting ping-pong balls or high BC bullets. If the wind is more than a breeze, then you need more trigger time in those conditions. And higher BC helps, but I don't think most hunters practice enough to shoot in 20 - 30 MPH winds at 400 yards.

Jason

Jason,

That's an interesting perspective. Running some numbers using JBM, and again using 30deg F, 4000 feet ASL, and assuming that with a center hold wind drift must be less than 12",

using a a 5 mph full-value wind,

.280 180 ELD-M at 2700 fps - 675 meters
.280 195 EOL at 2550 fps - 630 meters
.270 145 ELD-X at 3100 fps - 600 meters
.270 170 EOL at 2750 fps - 600 meters
30-06 165 NP at 2830 - 485 meters

Using 10 mph wind,

.280 180 ELD-M at 2700 fps - 490 meters
.280 195 EOL at 2550 fps - 455 meters
.270 145 ELD-X at 3100 fps - 435 meters
.270 170 EOL at 2750 fps - 435 meters
30-06 165 NP at 2830 - 350 meters

Using 20 mph wind,

.280 180 ELD-M at 2700 fps - 350 meters
.280 195 EOL at 2550 fps - 325 meters
.270 145 ELD-X at 3100 fps - 315 meters
.270 170 EOL at 2750 fps - 310 meters
.30-06 165 NP at 2830 - 255 meters

For a standard hunting load (that .30-06 load is Federal factory ammo), your estimation of 400 yards (365 meters) is spot on for a wind speed of about 8 mph. But as we can see, using a slickery bullet makes a difference.

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Am going to be checking with Brad about various things soon, and will ask him.

[/quote]

Photos would be greatly appreciated. The Biesen's rifles just got more refined as they went along. I liked the story from the web site of Al Biesen telling O'Conner he needed a good rifle and JOC thought the guy was an upstart, then later proceeds to order some 35 rifles from Al.

Ruraldoc I sent you a PM. I can show you how I did the bolt lock. It was pretty easy.

The Al Biesen O’Connor rifle discussed above is indeed owned by Hank Kaufman. It is true that the rifle was unfinished when Jack died, and at Jack’s funeral the O’Connor family instructed Al to complete the rifle. When it was finished, the family agreed to let Hank have the rifle for the remaining cost of having it completed.

The rifle has the original factory Ruger barrel, turned down, in .280 Remington, with custom rings and a Leupold 4x scope. I have had it in my hands, but don’t recall it being displayed at the O’Connor center annual shindig.

It is fitting that the rifle went to Hank, who was a lifelong friend and hunting partner of Jack’s, and with whom Jack made his last hunt.