Excellent video! I would like to try this....Towsley put his money where his mouth was, that was very impressive indeed!. And some nice shooting by all of those guy's đź‘Ť....Hb
At least Towsley can in fact shoot. For him carrying a big revolver is viable. The guys in the video all actually did better than I suspect most would. Shooting a hard recoiling revolver quickly isn't easy. Getting off a full cylinder at a charging bear in and of itself would be hard enough. Getting hits on a charging bear isn't going to be easy either. They cover a lot of ground quickly.
My opinion based on actually watching people shoot, and trying to qualify, after "training" for such makes me believe that the average hunter would likely NOT get off more than two shots from a big revolver in the time / distance a bear would give. Hitting what is necessary may be less likely. It takes a LOT of shooting to be able to shoot as well and as quickly as the worst one of the guys in the video. Again, this isn't what most people do.
Two legged vermin hell bent on trouble can cover 7 yards in three seconds pretty easily when motivated. If I had a revolver for self defense against one I'd feel I had a fighting chance. But if I were using either of my typical carry pistols I think I'd likely survive. Mine are automatics.
My biggest gripe I suppose is in recommending a tool that isn't likely to be used well enough, quickly enough. When you consider many of these situations will start with the firearm of choice holstered and the time it will take to draw and acquire a target it looks bleaker still. People don't practice enough to shoot the bigger guns well, and revolvers usually are harder for people to shoot well in DA.
The gun choice itself isn't of hardly any concern to me. If it[i] functions flawlessly, and you can shoot it well[/i], you're far better off than fumbling around and shooting poorly, regardless of caliber.
All this is my opinion of course. I wondered how many people would be on either side of the argument.
“You never need fear a man, no matter what his size. When danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize.” Samuel Colt.
�Common sense is genius dressed up in work clothes.� - Ralph Waldo Emerson
I believe it’s a pipe dream to think you’re going to get more than one maybe two shots off on a dedicated charge. So, they had better count and better be sufficient. I would much rather have a .454 than a 10mm...but that’s just me.
For the record, the revolver we used wasn’t ported, Tows key’s was, mitigating muzzle flip considerably. My second run which wasn’t filmed, was a 2.89. All of the other guys in the video acquitted themselves well despite limited experience with heavily recoiling revolvers with a minimum of practice. It only takes good instruction and some quality practice.
I think the gist of what he said, was that it was still a viable option for alot of folks. I think he is right, based on seeing lots of people try to manipulate semi autos at a gun counter.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them." -Master Chief Hershel Davis
I am not sure Shoemaker was being charged but IIRC it seems he was, he shot the bear more than once or twice with his 8 shot 9mm. For me, familiarity with the Glock design might be the difference in hitting something 2-4 times with a 200 hard cast 10mm or triggering one 454 round into the dirt. If your a guy that is familiar with a big bore revolver that’s the one for you, but not for me.
I am not sure Shoemaker was being charged but IIRC it seems he was, he shot the bear more than once or twice with his 8 shot 9mm. For me, familiarity with the Glock design might be the difference in hitting something 2-4 times with a 200 hard cast 10mm or triggering one 454 round into the dirt. If your a guy that is familiar with a big bore revolver that’s the one for you, but not for me.
For this discussion to have any merit you have to assume familiarity and competence with whatever firearm is chosen. I get tired of the assumption that no one can shoot heavy recoiling revolvers with a level of competence. Whatever you plan on staking your life on, you had better be damn sure you practice a lot with it.
You’re right, Phil wasn’t being charged and I’m sure if he had been the one being charged in that situation, he would have wanted more in his hands than a 9mm. That doesn’t detract from the fact that he likely saved the life of his client by being cool and capable.
I am not sure Shoemaker was being charged but IIRC it seems he was, he shot the bear more than once or twice with his 8 shot 9mm. For me, familiarity with the Glock design might be the difference in hitting something 2-4 times with a 200 hard cast 10mm or triggering one 454 round into the dirt. If your a guy that is familiar with a big bore revolver that’s the one for you, but not for me.
The bear did indeed charge and came fir tha clients. They immediately fell to the ground causing the bear confusion. Phil had no shot for the head, therefore he made body shots into the bears chest cavity.
The bear was between Phil and his clients, with no exits the clients were not endangered by any of the bullets.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Mr. Shoemaker is the man! I think most people would resort to "spray and pray". It would be very hard to concentrate on your front sight in that situation. Charged by a 150# man is a lot different than being charged by a 500# bear, I would think. I've never been in either situation and would like to end my days that way.
Whitworth1's statment "Whatever you plan on staking your life on, you had better be damn sure you practice a lot with it" should be gospel.
Mr. Shoemaker is the man! I think most people would resort to "spray and pray". It would be very hard to concentrate on your front sight in that situation. Charged by a 150# man is a lot different than being charged by a 500# bear, I would think. I've never been in either situation and would like to end my days that way.
Whitworth1's statment "Whatever you plan on staking your life on, you had better be damn sure you practice a lot with it" should be gospel.
Phil said that bear was about 900 pounds
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
None of us ever want to be in a fight for our lives with man, or beast, on top of us, but never forget, most autos jammed in ribs and out-of-battery will not fire. Not necessarily a proponent for one over the other. Just another wrinkle.
None of us ever want to be in a fight for our lives with man, or beast, on top of us, but never forget, most autos jammed in ribs and out-of-battery will not fire. Not necessarily a proponent for one over the other. Just another wrinkle.
I've never been charged by a bear, but if I was, I'd rather have a standard velocity 240 grain .44 Mag. than any 10mm. The old-school 44 Mag. load is weak compared to what a lot of guys here would shoot too. If I had a 10, I'd sure give it a try and I doubt there would be that much difference, but I'd still rather have the 44 Mag. minimum.
I rarely jump in these augments but this one by Bryce Towsley really reeks of self righteous B.S.
While I'm nowhere near articulate enough to put into words all that runs through my mind, there is so much to be said about this that it's hard to know where to start. His idea that a revolver is ideal for everything is laughable at best. He makes so many unsupported statements it's hard to read. There have been studies of armed self defense against humans, and of bears. Studies of what was effective, and so on.
While I confess that I have not been charged by a Grizzly, nor a mugger, I also have had a little training. People function in an emergency in much the same way they practice. Some don't function at all. So while I agree a revolver is generally reliable, there really isn't a reason I would feel better suited carrying one for self defense. In fact, even for bears I don't think I'd manage any better with a big revolver than I would with a semi-auto in 10mm or 45ACP. I'd probably do better with my Glock 19 with better placement & more hits than a revolver of either DA or SA.
If situation is such that I can't hide the G19, I usually carry a micro 9. It's easier to conceal than a revolver, and a spare mag makes for a quick reload. To discreetly carry a reload for a revolver you'd likely use a strip, as the bulk of a typical speed-loader would be uncomfortable and harder to hide.
To each their own I suppose but I can't see myself really listening to this writer about anything that isn't reported from a review/range day standpoint.
They can provide advantage under certain situations. For example, alloy J-frame in ankle carry as backup or powerful caliber with longer barrel for handgun hunting. When pistols first came out the ammo was terrible so many such firearms were notoriously unreliable. This is what they are going back to when they claim revolvers WERE more reliable than pistols.
If they chambered 44mag or greater in a reasonably sized auto - I wouldn't carry a revolver.
Two years ago, two friends of mine were fishing in Alaska; the one owning the cabin had a 44 Auto that stayed there.
My other friend was stuck in the water with a huffing, charging bear.
Long story short, dont leave a gun ready to roll at all times in a cabin for a year.
Another thing: some of the very best 44 Mag ammo (primarily the ones with decent bullets) wont function in 44 Mag autos. Most "bear" bullets for autos are also adapted to function in the gun first, by sacrificing certain bullet characteristics or performance characteristics to do so.
Has anyone actually learned anything from this mess? Who cares what someone carries as long as it is the 9MM whether a semi or a revolver. Hallelujah it will get the job done and will set you free. May the farce be with you now and forever more.
I AM THE GOOD FRIEND OF RENEGADE50. HE MENTORS ME. HE PUNISHES ME WHEN I AM WRONG. HE CALLS ME OUT WHEN I AM LYING. HE CARES GREATLY ABOUT ME.
gun, ammo, holster are easier to debate than skill w/ what you can actually shoot well. As a standard a Bill drill in < 3 seconds from the holster is hard to beat. What Whitworth1 can do w/ a gun does not reflect what I could do w/ the same gun. But I can shoot sub 3 second Bill drills w/ my G19 w/ 147 gr BB hcs on demand from my HPG kit bag. Different realities for different folks.
I now call it the Phil drill.
mike r
Don't wish it were easier Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that. Craig Douglas ECQC
