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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
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He did fulfill it. That's why Paul said we're not under it. Jesus did away with the dietary laws and put the rest together in a lump sum with the golden rule.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Posts: 37,116
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,116 |
He did fulfill it. That's why Paul said we're not under it. Jesus did away with the dietary laws and put the rest together in a lump sum with the golden rule.
True.
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'm confused. If Paul said the Law no longer applies, doesn't that contradict the words of Jesus? Jesus said he would change "not a jot nor a tittle" of the Law. Serious question.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,488 |
I'm confused. If Paul said the Law no longer applies, doesn't that contradict the words of Jesus? Jesus said he would change "not a jot nor a tittle" of the Law. Serious question. ...”till all is fulfilled.” It ‘was’ fulfilled.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,642
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
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I'm confused. If Paul said the Law no longer applies, doesn't that contradict the words of Jesus? Jesus said he would change "not a jot nor a tittle" of the Law. Serious question. That’s a good question because there are multiple uses of the word “Law”. There is the ceremonial law, the civil law, and the Mosaic Law or 10 commandments. The former 2 were particular to national Israel and passed away in the New Covenant so you don’t have to be circumcised and we don’t execute fornicators. Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Law for His people and it is now meant to instruct us on what a life of gratitude for salvation ought to look like. For those outside Christ’s people they continue to bear the penalty of their violation of the same. This is where the Apostle Paul is particularly helpful. He breaks it down very nicely in Romans chapters 2 & 3. That’s my imperfect understanding of it anyway...
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,801 |
'I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, and I have remained faithful.'
~ Paul
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,859
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,859 |
Why the incessant need to start religious threads?
You know how they are going to end. These guys push an agenda worse than the lgbtq's, they're turning folks AWAY from Christ, me being one, getting shlt rammed down your throat daily, will cause one to turn 180 degrees away from it! With all due respect sir no one is ramming anything; when something I don’t care to read about pops up I don’t open the thread. You’re a free thinking guy. Just float on by and enjoy your day! I hope you have a good one! No respect due to a dog like me, the Campfire HAS a secret squirrel handshake religious forum, why do you guys insist on posting this shlt daily in a sportsman's forum? if you believe you are charged with winning souls for Christ, you are doing exactly the opposite with the barrage of religious threads, I can also read the hypocrisy in different thread topics from the so called do-gooders.  You guys are doing Christianity a disservice. Very often the case. I see it kind of like someone advocating a new diet and fitness regimen. They claim its life changing and will make you a better person, and you'll be super fit and healthy. But, the people who talk about it most are fat,unhealthy and miserable people. Would you be inclined to want to try it? Probably not. What if they reassured it would work fine but they just didn't do a good job following it, causing them to be fat, unhealthy and miserable? Personally it wouldn't inspire much confidence in me that this lifestyle was really life changing and worth trying. That's the way I see religion. If you can't walk the walk, its probably best not to talk the talk too much until such a time as you CAN walk. Claiming that "I'm not perfect just saved" doesn't inspire others to want to follow your example. In our countries a Bible is available anywhere, religious programs are free on tv and radio or the internet, and churches are plentiful. Spreading the word is really not necessary, but if you truly want to help people to live a better life, demonstrate how its done. I guarantee you no one is being converted by people being azzhats on the internet, but it sure will turn them away in a hurry. Very good post. Thanks.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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True, we're under grace, but can't punt the law, as He came to fulfill, not replace or do away with the law. I’ve punted it. I don’t give a flip about it. He ‘did’ fulfill it, and now the Old Covenant is over with. It’s done. To say that the ‘moral’ elements of the law continue to be authoritative blunts the truth that the entire Mosaic covenant is no longer in force for believers. Good argument.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,859 |
I'm confused. If Paul said the Law no longer applies, doesn't that contradict the words of Jesus? Jesus said he would change "not a jot nor a tittle" of the Law. Serious question. Simple answer: Jesus says It would not pass until all was fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled it thus abolishing the enmity between Jews and others, the Law with Its commandments.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965 |
True, we're under grace, but can't punt the law, as He came to fulfill, not replace or do away with the law. I’ve punted it. I don’t give a flip about it. He ‘did’ fulfill it, and now the Old Covenant is over with. It’s done. To say that the ‘moral’ elements of the law continue to be authoritative blunts the truth that the entire Mosaic covenant is no longer in force for believers. The last thing He said on the cross was, "It is finished".
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,488 |
True, we're under grace, but can't punt the law, as He came to fulfill, not replace or do away with the law. I’ve punted it. I don’t give a flip about it. He ‘did’ fulfill it, and now the Old Covenant is over with. It’s done. To say that the ‘moral’ elements of the law continue to be authoritative blunts the truth that the entire Mosaic covenant is no longer in force for believers. The last thing He said on the cross was, "It is finished". Yep. That's the way I see it too. When Jesus said "it is finished", He meant just that. The Old Covenant was no more. It was over and done with. Jesus came to establish something brand new with the New Covenant...an agreement between God and all of the people in all of the world.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Jul 2015
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
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When Jesus said "it is finished", He meant just that. The Old Covenant was no more. It was over and done with. Jesus came to establish something brand new with the New Covenant...an agreement between God and all of the people in all of the world. To follow a new, more difficult moral law that even dictates how one thinks along with new ceremonial laws.
Politics is War by Other Means
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
Please fill me in. Why the lack of respect for the Work of Paul? Don’t be so nebulous. Speak clearly. What time frame, ancient or present day ?
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965 |
The New Covenant is fully based on Grace. God's Grace, which is without end and free for the asking.
People often don't understand that many things Jesus spoke of during His 3 years of ministry, were of the Old Covenant and very little of the New Covenant which He had to shed His Blood and die on the cross to usher in.
Also very important is that when the veil in the temple was torn in half upon His death, it meant that everyone could now go boldly before the Throne of God. No longer were priests necessary as an intermediary.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,488
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,488 |
The New Covenant is fully based on Grace. God's Grace, which is without end and free for the asking. Yep. Agreed. Grace is the hallmark of the Jesus experience. God’s Grace is ‘God knew everything about you and chose to love you anyway.’ God’s Grace is ‘there are no secrets from your Heavenly Father and He refuses not to call you one of His children.’ God’s Grace is ‘you don’t deserve it, you can’t deserve it, the word deserve isn’t even considered.’ Grace is grace. It’s getting something good that you don’t deserve. And the moment you start trying to ‘earn’ it, in ‘any’ way, you have done away with grace. God’s Grace is a gift. And I think that extending grace to other people is the greatest opportunity that we’ll ever have, relationally, while we’re on this earth. When applied correctly, grace is ‘the’ solution to just about everything.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
The New Covenant is fully based on Grace. God's Grace, which is without end and free for the asking. Yep. Agreed. Grace is the hallmark of the Jesus experience. God’s Grace is ‘God knew everything about you and chose to love you anyway.’ God’s Grace is ‘there are no secrets from your Heavenly Father and He refuses not to call you one of His children.’ God’s Grace is ‘you don’t deserve it, you can’t deserve it, the word deserve isn’t even considered.’ Grace is grace. It’s getting something good that you don’t deserve. And the moment you start trying to ‘earn’ it, in ‘any’ way, you have done away with grace. God’s Grace is a gift. And I think that extending grace to other people is the greatest opportunity that we’ll ever have, relationally, while we’re on this earth. When applied correctly, grace is ‘the’ solution to just about everything. And most all problems in this Ole world are caused by the misapplication of the Free Will that He bestowed upon us. Jmo
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Posts: 69,367
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,367 |
Jesus left it to Paul to put it in plain language for the masses. 2 short verses, here in clear English, that anyone can understand...anyone who WANTS to understand, that is. Many don't.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,488
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,488 |
When Jesus said "it is finished", He meant just that. The Old Covenant was no more. It was over and done with. Jesus came to establish something brand new with the New Covenant...an agreement between God and all of the people in all of the world. To follow a new, more difficult moral law... Idk if it’s more difficult...but it’s WAY better. It’s a WAY better way of relating to God and serving Him...and it’s a WAY better way of relating to others and serving others.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,488
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,488 |
Jesus left it to Paul to put it in plain language for the masses. 2 short verses, here in clear English, that anyone can understand...anyone who WANTS to understand, that is. Many don't.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Yes sir.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,235
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,235 |
Why the incessant need to start religious threads?
You know how they are going to end. These guys push an agenda worse than the lgbtq's, they're turning folks AWAY from Christ, me being one, getting shlt rammed down your throat daily, will cause one to turn 180 degrees away from it! wabigoon just likes to stir up schidt then sit back and watch the reaction.
Let's Go Brandon! FJB
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