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In the 70's the work force opened up more positions for women with degrees ( who were previously forced to go into teaching) and many women left or did not enter the teaching field to go get MBA's, med school, law school etc. The quality of teachers really dropped and ed major is the easiest major now in college so many of the poor, intellectually challenged students, who should never be in college, choose this major. ( Of course there are still are a small percentage of good teachers) I know many younger teachers who enter teaching simply because they like summers off, not because they are passionate about teaching.

Both my parents taught over 30 years and would fail students who did not turn in home work or pass exams. Of course that ended in the early 80's so every student could graduate.


My Mom and Dad use to say you can teach them and then they go home to dysfunctional home environments and forget everything. How can a kid form a plugged up home learn when Mom or Dad is an abusive alcoholic, drug addict or Mom's new boy friend is trying to molest them and there's no food in the home...

Millions of kids now are just doomed to fail and coupled with extremely lowered teaching standards, corrupt teachers' unions who love the failed status quo so they can demand more money all the time to "fix it" , there is no hope.

There it is.

Teachers teach what they are mandated to, and every damned year some [bleep] "up above" (Fed and state government) piles more crap on without ever removing any previously mandated crap, leaving basic education hanging by a thread or ignored due to time/money constraints. And this is money-concerned - every SD wants that state and federal money. Don't "teach" it, you don't get the money and oyther sanctions are applied.

Your next sentence is spot on, but these are mandated as "have to", not "more concerned" while basics take the hit - and it isn't really the teachers' chouce. The curriculum is is set by the school district and above.

It’s all over the place.
Some states the teachers are paid very little. And it’s sad.

Remember the Chicago UNION teachers strike during Obama’s “presidency “

Poor teachers striking for their rights.

They wanted.
Average pay would have been over $100k
TWO YEAR TENURE!!!!!! 2 years and can’t be fired......
And all raises based on time......quality had NOTHING to do with it.

Now tell me about Unions......and the Unions get their cut.

No
Yes

We all have things we’d probably do different if given the chance.
I chose military service as a mechanic, because I had a good mechanical background and wanted to start a family.
Later on I sorta regretted not going to college and becoming a History teacher. But I highly doubt I could be a teacher now, let alone teach American history as I know it to be! I’d probably be run out on a rail.
Between that, and the battleground that many schools have become, I doubt that I’d be happier!
I’ve got a cousin who’s a teacher in New Port VA. She got another job, because the schools were run by gangs and most teachers were in fear of them.
I mean we bitch because someone calls a cop on a student for chewing a pop tart into the shape of a gun, but teachers and administrators are powerless to prevent the disciplinary problems caused by liberal values.
Mrs Hammers or Miss Buyers had the option of corporal punishment, and occasionally used it. We signed a paper allowing it on “Bighunter” but we also taught him to respect his teachers. I don’t think it ever necessary, because he knew he’d get his ass beat at home as well. His teachers always complimented Carol and I on his politeness and behavior. He was probably a better student than I was, and I did pretty well.
And yes, comparing schools today to the schools we attended is an apples to oranges thing. But we as parents allowed it to get to this point. Carol was very active in PTA and school board meetings. I was usually working 3rd shift, which took me outta the picture a lot. (Not that racecars and shooting sports didn’t)
Yeah, it’s still called Chestnut Ridge, but it’s nowhere near the school I attended. None of them are.
7mm

I am a fifth generation teacher. I can tell you that the respect presently given to teachers is demonstrated in this thread. There are a lot of liberal-minded folks that are teachers but I can tell you that we work in impossible conditions with very little fanfare. I say this prepping to make 35 gallons of Moose Soup and 400 servings of Indian Fry Bread for my students tomorrow. How many of you would give your local school 50 lbs of game meat for the students so that hunting in the next generation is viewed favorably. I make a living wage but I work harder than most people that I know. Right now, I have three classes of more than 35 students. I would guess that many of my students are rougher than the students in Slumlord's class. I had 24 at the beginning of the year in one class until 10 came back from multiple day suspensions for fighting, drug use and four for jacking off in class. I am not a strict disciplinarian but I get results with the roughest and the brightest kids. During my roughest class I have an old retired school math teacher who comes in and takes 10 students who are non-readers and reads the book selections to them. They do that for 20 minutes and are then ready for class.

I have 25 years in. I am in the last cohort of teachers with a defined benefit. We don't get social security in Alaska. When my cohort is gone teachers relying on their 403b retirements will have a %50 chance of being able to retire if they are single and work for more than 30 years. Alaska was ranked at the top for education when they paid teachers the most and had great retirements. We are now ranked 49th in the nation. Our school has the highest test scores in any larger comprehensive school in the state. However, they are cutting AP programs for remedial programs. I don't see things improving. I taught out in the bush for several years and was shot at, stabbed by a 3rd grader amped up on Ritalin, and was burglarized constantly. Those places continue to be very much a violent and as chaotic as Mogadishu or Fallujah.

Daily, we have to battle parents who say that their sweet little angel can use their cell phone to watch netflix and porn whenever they want. We confiscate their phone and send it to administration only to have the little angel's parent come into the school and return the phone right to the student. Parents that will back down administration by saying that they need to have their student to be able to do what they want. I take all of my career in my hands when a punk who is trained in MMA decides to beat up a girl that they don't like and I take the kid to the ground and haul his ass to the office.I take my career in my hands when I tell a doctor's daughter that she needs to go to the office to change her clothing because her nether regions are prominently on display. I also take my career in my hands when I have to report to OCS that your student is threatening suicide because a boy dumped her. I finally take my career in my hands when I call a young lady a young lady when she decides to be Harold for the day. Kids have so much power but are so fragile that the vast majority of you would be bounced out quicker than you can imagine.

Yeah, the unfireable teachers basically do nothing and let the kids run the classrooms. They don't rock the boat and just keep passing problems along. I know many of you respect teachers but to me it looks like you haven't a clue. I only get a very short window to do one hunt per year. So I have to make it count. Used to be that a teacher could take summers off. That doesn't happen anymore because teachers are expected to be in working families where there are two incomes. My wife is disabled so I work about 70 hrs per week on the teacher side and then 20+ hours at SW.

So before you crumb the teachers that teach your kids, I advise you to take a day off and spend an entire day shadowing a teacher in your local school.

He brings up an excellent point about class size as well.
Our district at the time I attended had around 125 to 140 kids per grade. We had 4 separate grade schools, each grade having 30 or so kids per class grade.
High school was one building housing grades 7 through 12. They broke us down into classes of 30 or so, based on our grades for junior high.
In senior high there were 14 of us in Vo Ag. The English or History classes had 30 or so kids.
I graduated in 1983. I got no idea what the average class size is now, but it’s gotta be a helluva lot higher than 30. With that many kids lumped together, I’m certain it’s much harder to know kids personally, and to help the ones who need it.
My Mom took time to go over our lessons with us, but like I said, I was a pretty good student. I know Carol did that with Bighunter as well.
I know we’re all busier now. I know we all have more stress in our lives too.
I’m very pro-life, but if you’re too damn busy and stressed for your kids, maybe you need to think about some priorities....
7mm

I should say that I really love my job. Students treat me with a great deal of respect. They love to learn different ways and have great hearts. I can say that there are a lot of students who are conservative and they love the fact that I don't hide my views even if I can't tell them how I would vote. It is a job that is not about the money even though wages in Alaska are decent. It's just a fallacy that a newly minted liberal arts student is going out to a classroom thinking that they are really going to make it big financially. People who go work in the trades make more money than most teachers but their bodies start to wear out in their 40s. The demographic of which age and sex is most likely to die of an heroin overdose in Alaska is a 55 yo working male who has been overprescribed painkillers till its a real problem.

What I cited was one particular teacher, we were a rough bunch but that was bad one, things got sideways in there from the get-go because of his disrespect towards us.

We all had a 75-80 yr old 12 grade English teacher, she didn’t take any crap and was ‘all-business’ probably one of the best teachers in high school and everyone hated English. But you kept quiet and did the course work. We did tie a goat 🐐 to her desk on the last day of school. She had sense of humor, got a big laugh about it at graduation. Respect is give and take.

Now the chemistry teacher, we were kind of mean to him too, setting the trash can on fire almost every Friday, mixed all his chemical samples during our “unknowns” exams. Even he was fugged up and why compounds precipitated that shouldnt haha. Stole his coveted chunk of sodium metal and tossed into the Ag pond. Was like a hand grenade going off. I felt bad about the chit that went on in there. lol

My kids go to this same school now. I enjoy telling the admins up there how much their school sucked back in the day. Place was dump, asbestos abatement during school hours, buckets to catch roof leaks.
Today they have free pizza on ACT testing day, free chicken box dinners during pep rallies, today everything is painted and flowers planted all nicey-nicey. They got 4 vice principals, 4 guidance counselors, 2 sheriff’s deputies.

I was a vocational teacher for 42 years. Started back in 1972, evolved with the changes in society and the way the public schools were run. I would have difficulty starting now. Luckily I was a vocational teacher for the entire time. Most kids wanted to be in the shop classes unless the teacher was an absolute jerk. I only knew one guy who took over the wood shop who ran kids out in a few years. He was too hung up on every detail.

Perhaps my classroom management approach was different. I viewed a shop class as a matter of priorities. I began in Jr High and after 9 years moved to High School. I taught woods, machine tool technology and automotives. Safety was the top priority with getting things spotlessly clean perhaps last. Some things can be allowed to go on as they are minor in the theme of things. I always showed respect for all students. I would delegate responsibility often. Ever see a kid's eyes light up when you allow him or her to drive a car into the shop? One thing I never tolerated was talking when I was talking or teaching a lesson. Today's teachers don't seem to care or don't notice these days. Perhaps that is the beginning of the slippery slope of class control that many younger teachers don't often have.

As time went on the state, school board, superintendent and our principals altered the way things were done. Some of the changes helped but many didn't. It didn't take long to figure out that discipline was my concern unless safety violations became chronic. Writing a referral generally was a waste of time. Fortunately safety issues were viewed differently. I had a safety violations log book and any time a student violated the rule, which in many cases was a state law, the student had to come up and sign and date log. Getting caught not wearing safety glasses the first time was usually enough to scare them into always wearing them. Once in a great while, approximately one student every two years would get removed from the program due to safety violations. At least the state was wise enough to have those laws and any administrator that ignored the violations would be in deep trouble.

I loved teaching young men and women life skills in my programs. I hated the way the system evolved. I think there are many good teachers in the system who are overwhelmed with requirements shoved upon them by people in control who have never taught. Most kids want to learn and will show respect if given same.

I understand the frustration of many who have posted. I think it was a good suggestion for anyone concerned with today's schools shadow a teacher for a day or at least visit a school and see first hand what it is like.

I dunno that we have any teacher’s unions worthy of the name is Texas.

With all this being said, it all goes back to poor parenting. Just because you can make a kid, that didn’t mean you should.

One thing I never tolerated was talking when I was talking or teaching a lesson. Today's teachers don't seem to care or don't notice these days. Perhaps that is the beginning of the slippery slope of class control that many younger teachers don't often have.

This is probably an almost universal rule in teaching.

The other thing I would ask a teacher in a PT conference is are they an "effective" teacher according to Harry K. Wong. They are going to run the boat up the bank if they aren't.


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The ten per cent like you are holding what remained of the educational system together. You remind me of my Dad who taught 37 years. One of his goals was to get a local girl from the Chippewa Rez to go on to college.He would help fill out college applications for them but the tribal council shut him down for 30 years.

When I was in high school the students (mostly boys) that couldn't make it either scholastically or behavior wise got expelled or quit school and drifted off not to be a disruption any longer. Now I don't think they can get kicked out for murder. We had a 14 year old unprovoked shot his brother down on a dirt road near their home and the local judge forbid the school expelling him even when he came to school talking crazy. My kids were sent to a Catholic school that could get rid of problem students. A young man I know was teaching locally and kicked a kid out of class and told the principal not to send him back to him to teach. Guess who had to leave? Personally I'm against teachers striking kids except in self defense but they sure ought to be able to kick them out and I don't mean send them to alternative school.

Teaching isn't the same as learning. they were taught all of those skills,retained them long enough to pass a test and then forgot it. Learning is being able to retain those skills to accomplish something. Kids learn what is important to them.



There are as many conservative teachers as liberal. And on top of that kids are only in school 6 hours a day for about 180 days each year. They are at home under the supervision of their parents almost 9 times that many hours each year. if your kid is being influenced more by their teachers than their parents then as a parent you suck.



Never worked for a union. Never met a teacher who did. If unions are running your school then you need to move.

The unions are much stronger on the east coast, west coast and mid west. not so much in the south

I taught school for 6 years, then realized I didn't want to put up with the mandated BS and administrative azzwipes for another 14. Or the hours to be on top of it. A personal failing perhaps. I can live with it.

My wife is stubborn, and in one capacity or another, from teaching K- Administrative, went 42, retiring 3 times, going back in twice when she just couldn't stand not working (She might just be a workaholic.... ). She had more credits than most PHD's when she retired the last time as an Special Services Director, answering only to the Superintendent. Or for that matter, in accepting her last two positions before that.

Tenure has its place as a buffer against Azzwipe administrators, those in mostly for career and empire building. If you ain't for them, you are agin them, no matter how corrupt they are, and they will get you if you don't agree, comply, and often endanger yourself legally. Actual education is often well down the line. We have stories...and my wife is smart, knowing how to dodge bullets. Anything above "teacher" is political, for the most part. And even then...

2 year tenure- if a teacher can't prove himself in that time, what does that tell you? The district has that amount of time to evaluate and not renew contract. They are unlikely to not be competent the rest of their career if honestly retained. . Assuming administrative competency. If they are good, they will only improve (for the majority) with experience and mandated additional credits. Many go far beyond that mandated additional credit requirement every few years.

My wife's Masters cost us $30K - her salary increase upon completion was $1K, annually. Not exactly cost effective. In a far north, high salary position, after she got her admin certificate(more $), I influenced her to pull the plug for her 3rd retirement, after 8 years there. (I loved Kotzebue- could have stayed more years). She was getting damned dizzy, after 8 years of working 90 plus hour weeks, 12 months a year. She was afforded 6 week leave annually, but only took 2, and was compensated at 80% for the rest. Effectively, she was working at a discount. Her next year's salary would have been $140K. You do the hourly wage math.... It was tempting....but she was pretty batshit - we had to go.

They hired 3 people to replace her - a record. Usually it was only 2 in past admin positions. It's hard to find suckers, apparently...

You anti-teacher no-nothings can just GFY, from my perspective. I can't speak for the greater US, just from our last 45 years here in Alaska.

For the most part, teachers have my respect- and yes, I realize most lean left personally - it is in the psyche, but I have seldom seen that manifested overtly in the classroom. Up here.

YMMV.

I once - once- once... told my wife that if she was a better(classroom) teacher she would not be working 60-70 hour weeks.....


That went over well!

I like to think of myself as fairly conservative with pretty conservative values. I’m certainly not grey-haired, yet; however, I’m also not as young as I used to be. I, like a lot of the people I grew up with, went to college right out of high school. This was only 17 years ago. Like a lot of other people I know, I didn’t graduate because I never let class or homework get in the way of a good time.

Since my unplanned departure from higher education some 15 years ago, I did time in the US Army, got married, had two kids, and have spent the majority of the rest of the time working in the oilfield.

Just recently I decided to go back to school to finish a degree and try to find a better job once I complete it.

Some of the things I have seen, read, heard, or otherwise witnessed by both professors AND fellow students leaves me little hope for the future. It has gotten to the point where I’m not really surprised anymore.