Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Federal's response to FC vs. LC brass difference

In reference to .223/5.56 brass.
On the 24HC Black Rifle Challenge Thread there was a recent discussion about FC brass being softer than other brands. It seems several people found this to be the case in the past.
It was also brought up whether the newer FC brass with the case head that has the SCAMP dots is the same as LC brass, also with the SCAMP dots, IE are both made to the same spec.
I sent an email to Federal yesterday asking specifically about this to resolve the question. I have a lot FC brass on hand and I'd like to know the answer.

My question to Federal:
Is Federal .223/5.56 brass with the SCAMP dots on the case head the same (mil spec) brass as Lake City? I have seen several comments that FC brass is softer than LC, but I was wondering if the newer FC brass with the SCAMP dots was the same as LC.
Thanks

Federals response:
It is the same.
Thank you
Federal Ammunition Tech Services

So then it has been made since ATK took over LC in 2001? Nice to know I have about 6 different FC headstamps but most has SCAMP dimples.

Thank you.

Yep, if it has the SCAMP dimples it should be as good as LC.

What are SCAMP dimples? Google no help.

Paul

In all honesty, I had never paid any attention to those dots nor can I recall hearing about the SCAMP machine. Google Fu was strong and it only took a couple of minutes to get up to speed.

Went to my prepped and sorted brass stash and checked out some Frontier I bought last year when Hornady announced they were being loaded by LC. Sure enough those cases have the SCAMP dots too.

Paul, there is a picture on this thread:

http://forum.afte.org/index.php?topic=5938.0

Four SCAMP dots flank the NATO cross in it.

Sure.

But the stuff WITHOUT the dimples sure is different!

The stuff I was talking about is marked FC, strictly Federal made commercial ammo.

Of course y'all heard that Winchester is now running LC right?

I expect we will eventually see WIN USA with SCAMP dots...

I have brass of much newer production than 2001 that doesn't have the dots.
I would guess that when Lake City is in the middle of large military contract production (Afghan/Iraq conflicts) Federal manufactures the brass in a different plant or sources their brass elsewhere.

Not yet. Winchester takes over later on this year. Federal just contracted some production capacity surplus to Hornady and Winchester due to the soft market.

Yeah, everyone has been saying FC is garbage, while LC is the chidt. Now we find out it's the same exact chidt? I have known FC made LC brass for a long time, but I have seen differences. I actually had to give up on some older LC brass I had stockpiled, because I was getting split necks. Still no issues with the FC... I'll have to check to see if the FC brass I have has the scamp markings on it though... and also, if winchester is going to be making LC brass now, I'm wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. What winchester has been puting on the shelves in recent years, has been absolute garbage. Very thin and always some culls in each bag. Its a waste of money..

The LC plant is run by standards that if not met will void the contract, doesn't matter who wins the bid.

Correct.

I don't feel that all brass from LC is equal. There is a minimum spec and some runs of brass may exceed that minimum. Also, there are a number of machines producing brass and I feel not all the brass maybe equal because of multiple production lines. I wish I had a magic answer when looking at LC and FC brass as to which case I should use. I have experienced flyers, when shooting for accuracy, that can only be explained by a difference in the case. If I'm shooting for accuracy, I try to sort by date and case weight.

It has the same brass case as LC. BUT, The FC does not get the last strike that hardens the head. That is the difference between the two.

Win supplies all manufacturers the basic cup that is used to form the brass.

Alright, made me look.

I bought three bags of 250 American Eagle brass about a year ago. It's headstamped LC 15 and has the dimples. Think I paid $40 a bag for unprimed (I ain't reaming out crimps!).

I have found FC brass that has a larger primer pocket. The primer will barely stay in. It looks like commercial brass with no NATO stamp and no crimp. I have to wonder if the pocket was stretched by the first loading (hot load ?) or if the primer on the first loading was loose as well. If I can tap out the primer I toss it. If the primer does not fall out tapping it on the table top I mark it and glue in the primer with clear nail polish. I load it light for plinking and it gets tossed after that load is fired.

kwg

The pure yellow FC brass without the dimples is not the same as FC.

I've read reports that it's not even made in the same plant. It's much softer, and not just the head of case that's different. It's also a different thickness and won't hold a primer like FC due to the primer pocket consisting of softer brass.

As KWG noted, when once fired factory brass won't hold a primer, it's not anything like LC spec brass.

Winchester or Olin? I ask because the rolls of brass I saw being made into jackets I saw when I toured Sierra were marked "Olin".