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Originally Posted by teal
Originally Posted by Etoh


also don't shoot dry, thats what a tactical reload was for. saving the mag, of course for later and consolidation.



I sorta struggle with this and simply saying - I don't know here but why would I ever remove a magazine that's definitely working and feeding ammo and replace it for one I don't know for sure will?

Now - I get it, test before needed under duress and all that but it's still a bit of an unknown what may or may not have happened to that magazine between "life is good" and "holy chit - I need to return fire" - did you fall down, roll around, get mud/dirt in there etc. Did something happen since the last time you used that mag? How long ago was that?

I don't know - just something I wonder about.



A lot of the Gunsite dogma has been replaced over the years w/ actual experience based techniques gained by expert users since 9/11 and w/ the fierce evolution resulting from competition. "tactical reloads" are a good skill to have but few people can count rounds in a stressful, fast moving situation. Replacing a partially spent mag w/ a freshy is a good idea when in a "safe" place prior to moving into an unknown or hostile space.


mike r


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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Originally Posted by Etoh
If for some reason the slide was locked back (mostly 1911s) never drop the slide without holding the trigger back, to disconnect the sear, so as not to ruin a good trigger job.


That's crazy.


Blue is one of those radical young guys who don't finger their triggers until their sight are on an identified target, whippernappers! grin

mike r


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Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
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Originally Posted by lvmiker
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Originally Posted by Etoh
If for some reason the slide was locked back (mostly 1911s) never drop the slide without holding the trigger back, to disconnect the sear, so as not to ruin a good trigger job.


That's crazy.


Blue is one of those radical young guys who don't finger their triggers until their sight are on an identified target, whippernappers! grin

mike r



This is the sequence gun and shooter do every time the gun is fired and it cycles.

It is used by a lot of bulleyse shooters who don't want to damage a very light trigger,

It was recommended by some pistol smiths when you got your new comp gun, (Wilson, Pachemyer, Clark) before IPSC was taken over by the gamers.

I don't care if you do it or not.

whether gamer mentality (technic) is superior as far as day to day carry would probably depend more on the person.

If you shoot IDPA or local matches that require a "tactical" reload you may want to practice them. Duh.


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Okay, I gotta ask. You're in the middle of a stage or gun fight if it's a bad day and you run to slide lock. So you insert a new mag and press the trigger while hitting the slide release ending up with a dead gun (1911) at best?

Surely I'm misunderstanding what you said.

I saw Hackathorn say not to let a 1911 slide slam on an empty chamber cause it ruins a trigger job but I can't grasp what you're saying here.

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guns dead only as long as you stand there and look at it.

as the mag is inserted and slide release press, gun is coming into sight picture (the definition will surely change for a gamer) trigger finger starts off trigger and either held straight out, mean time disconnector has picked up sear, gun goes hot

empty chamber can cause the most damage, but the interia against trigger mechanism is still present although less because slide slowed down a bit picking up the round from the mag.


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There's is another reason to use the slide release...by always using the slingshot method you turn a handgun into a "handsgun".

In the classes I have run can't tell you the number of times I've seen students doing a one handed disabled reload during a blind scenario either stare at the gun for a second before realizing they need to use the slide stop or try to slingshot the slide with part of their body/clothing trying to catch the rear sight... The last one who did it last summer I asked, why didn't just use the slide release... He realized then he was so ingrained in using the slingshot method he didn't even remember it was there....

When I do a lockback reload at speed, my primary hand never changes grip. When the mag is slammed home with the support hand, as it rolls up into the support grip the left thumb simply pushes down on the on the release. And I start shooting. I teach "slingshot" as method #3, not #1.

The Israelis teach a slingshot reload because it flows naturally with their carrying with an empty chamber method...

From what I saw the SIG Academy was the first to start teaching slingshot...why, because their slide release button is so small and ergonomically out of place it is easily missed by many people. Same with Glocks.


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Color me simple but I am stuck on when it is OK to put your finger inside the trigger guard unless prepared to shoot. The entire reloading sequence should be complete prior to doing this.


mike r


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Originally Posted by Etoh
It was recommended by some pistol smiths when you got your new comp gun, (Wilson, Pachemyer, Clark) before IPSC was taken over by the gamers.


Just so everyone else who's reading doesn't get the wrong impression, what you described would get you immediately disqualified from a USPSA match.

Rule 10.5.9 (Match Disqualifications)
Failure to keep the finger outside the trigger guard during loading, reloading, or unloading.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
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Originally Posted by Etoh
This is the sequence gun and shooter do every time the gun is fired and it cycles.


Except during the firing sequence the pistol is pointed at the target. During the reload sequence it's not.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
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Originally Posted by Etoh
guns dead only as long as you stand there and look at it.

as the mag is inserted and slide release press, gun is coming into sight picture (the definition will surely change for a gamer) trigger finger starts off trigger and either held straight out, mean time disconnector has picked up sear, gun goes hot

empty chamber can cause the most damage, but the interia against trigger mechanism is still present although less because slide slowed down a bit picking up the round from the mag.


Got it!

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And just to be clear, under stress, I can see the trigger being pulled at the wrong time allowing the hammer to follow the slide home at best or the gun firing at worst. To me it's just a bad habit to get into cause things do happen.

But my 1911 trigger isn't so light that it's gonna mess with anything either, when I run to slide lock, I'm gonna get it back in action the quickest way I can.

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"And just to be clear, under stress, I can see the trigger being pulled at the wrong time allowing the hammer to follow the slide home at best or the gun firing at worst"

.....can't happen...there is a small part called the disconnector which prevents that very thing from happening... Hold the trigger back when dropping the slide and nothing will happen until the trigger is released and it resets...

It's just the same when one fires the gun...the trigger is still to the rear when the slide finishes cycling...

Some of my triggers are in the 3-3.5# range... I never drop the slide with any 1911 empty except during a match when it is basically required. The 4-6 times it has to be done in one day isn't going to kill anything...that and it is only the REALLY light trigger jobs that don't have very much engagement surface that are effected. Simple solution is just ease the slide down with ones off hand...no bad habits to pick up...


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It’s a terrible idea.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
It’s a terrible idea.



Thanks Blue, I can still be embarrassed to be a boomer. JFC it is 2020 guys, do a reality check and quit making old guys look like Joe Biden.


mike r


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Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho
Not sure if this will stir up the same controversy as hot/cold carry or, God forbid, blue tape vs. all other colors, but should a semi-auto pistol have a slide release or just a slide lock?

In the opinion of myself, God and John Moses (not necessarily in that order), a pistol should have a slide release. I will make exception for the tiniest pocket pistols but a real combat oriented pistol needs to have something that can feed a round from a fresh magazine with the use of only one hand. Never mind that it generally takes two hands to load a fresh magazine, but once done, you should not have to slingshot the pistol to load it. If you want to, that's fine, but you shouldn't have to.

Being left handed, this is a nit pick which has just about turned into a deal breaker for me on the S&W M&P. Their manual tells you to slingshot the slide, that the slide lock is not what that miniscule stamped metal part is for. The ambidextrous slide lock/release (gender confused, perhaps) will work to release the slide, at least that one on the left side of the pistol will but the one on the right side is apparently there for ornamental purposes only since it is nigh impossible to depress unless you have the finger strength of a teenage boy with a free PornHub account. And even that little nub of a thingamajig on the left is not the easiest thing to manipulate.

Which is frustrating because I like everything else about the M&P 2.0. My two examples are nicely accurate, the extra grips allow one to customize it to fit, and the trigger is very good - after some take up it breaks almost as nicely as a good SA trigger. You can even switch the magazine release to the opposite side, which I have done. But it is almost impossible to release the %^*#@! slide with the left thumb! Arrrgh.

A Glock Gen 5 has a nice ambi slide release, the one on the Sig P320 is better. And even on those antique 1911's and Beretta 92/M9's, the slide release on the left side only is an extended piece that positions itself under the thumb (or my index finger) and allows good leverage to easily release the slide. Even the little Sig P365 has a fully functional left side slide release.


So, on a semi-auto pistol do you call it a slide lock only or do you agree with God and JMB that it should also serve as a slide release? All comments are welcome, I want to keep a completely open mind and not try to influence anyone here...



Slide-locks are very useful when clearing stoppages. If you don't like to worry about pulling slide back or depressing slide-lock you can always get a gun that closes slide when mag is inserted. Examples are old Mauser HSC or Heckler & Koch .380acp.

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Carrying with an empty chamber,----- now thats a terrible idea.

next time I need to use my gun, Ill wait until the RO yells load, and make ready.. ROFLMAO


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Originally Posted by lvmiker
it is 2020 guys, do a reality check and quit making old guys look like Joe Biden.


mike r


hahahahahahahahahahahaha


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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