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A judge has no latitude in sentencing?
A judge has not the option of giving a stiffer sentence to a criminal who flagrantly violates probation?
Having more has nothing to do with the fact that the little bimbo refuses to abide by the rules of her original sentence.
The only thing of importance is the fact that she has become an habitual offender. That is why she needs slapped hard, it has nothing to do with her bank accounts.
She needs time in jail rather than a fine, and that does have something to do with her bank accounts. She would never notice a million dollar fine. But she will notice incarceration.
Give her a choice, a million dollar fine or a week in county lockup. What is she gonna choose? What is going to teach her a lesson?
Me, on the other hand. Give me a choice between 120 days or five thousand dollars, I'd have to take the 120 days. It would not hurt me as bad as the five thousand. The 120 days would not even hurt my employment, I have more vacation saved than that. Hell, I could get caught up on my reading.
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Idaho Shooter However seemingly appropriate regarding Paris Hilton, it's nowhere near the point of law I'm trying to address.
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. -- Daniel Webster
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It always amazes me how some people have the mindset that if a person has more then they should have to pay more. In our never ceasing search for equality among the classes the theory of "equal sacrifice" has came into play with some, not all, but some. What is a sacrifice for me might not be for you. Should you then be required to pay till it hurts??? Paris can afford anything she wants, so is it fair to say that she must pay more than others, for the same crime, so that she feels SACRIFICE? There are no lessons learned if there is no sacrifice! So yes it is fair. Judges have a lot of latitude in their sentencing requirements. Wonder why that is? Perhaps it is because the legal system recognizes that it takes different levels of training to instill a lesson into different people. You're wrong, but its a typical response to justify hurting someone more because they have more. A judge has no latitude in sentencing? A judge has not the option of giving a stiffer sentence to a criminal who flagrantly violates probation? Having more has nothing to do with the fact that the little bimbo refuses to abide by the rules of her original sentence. The only thing of importance is the fact that she has become an habitual offender. That is why she needs slapped hard, it has nothing to do with her bank accounts. She needs time in jail rather than a fine, and that does have something to do with her bank accounts. She would never notice a million dollar fine. But she will notice incarceration. Give her a choice, a million dollar fine or a week in county lockup. What is she gonna choose? What is going to teach her a lesson? Me, on the other hand. Give me a choice between 120 days or five thousand dollars, I'd have to take the 120 days. It would not hurt me as bad as the five thousand. The 120 days would not even hurt my employment, I have more vacation saved than that. Hell, I could get caught up on my reading. You see, courts/judges have to justify disparate treatment of offenders. Ones socio-economic status is not a legal reason to jail or imprison someone because the fine wont hurt enough. They do have discretion, but its not to take in to account the things you stated you would...good thing you're not a judge. The judge is not concerned with "teaching a lesson" per se. He is, or should be concerned with the law. The law does not allow for stiffer punishment for the rich just like it doesn't for the poor. You punish the crime and the person as you would those similarly situated under the law. That means you can take in to account the good they have done, the harm they have done, their danger to the community, etc...one's bank account is not a legal reason to jail them when you wouldn't jail others for a similar offense and similar past criminal history because the fine wont hurt enough. Everybody here has talked of money and privilege...can somebody tell me what that has gotten Paris in this venture? If I were keeping score I'd say she's well behind the power curve because of nothing more than who she is and the money she has. Her high powered lawyer didn't seem to be able to "beat the rap" in the original charge, nor keep them from violating her probation and sending her to jail. The only difference I see in her treatment vs. Jane Doe is that every move she makes she has a camera in her face...she can't take a vacation and not tell anyone where she is. The day she got sentenced on the DUI...how many others did to whose name we don't know? Yeah, she's getting special treatment alright...and I bet you her fortune she'd trade that "special treatment for being treated like the rest of L.A.'s convicted DUI drivers at this point. As an aside...tell me why Paris should know or act any different. She was born with more money than she could ever spend...grew up and some might call her attractive though she'd not my type...and all her life she's done what she's done...now the "normal rich kids" in this world usually have to go to college and eventually make some of their own way, and if they do they grow up some and learn the ways of the real world...Paris on OTOH just about the time she needed to become an adult was offered a TV show...a chance to showcase her talents...that talent being a no ambition blond bimbo with no world skills...she made a profit being worthless as a contributor to society! Why! People thought it was entertaining...so know we have a 20 something rich girl...who has had it re-affirmed in her head that being who she is and acting that way is not only OK...people approve and will pay her to do so! Paris is what she is...nothing more, nothing less...if you don't like her and you don't know her personally...then you can ONLY dislike her because she has more than you, doesn't have to work to be rich, doesn't have to work, etc...because as yet, nobody here has claimed to know her personally. And if the only thing you know about her is her TV/Hollywood persona...then your naive if you think you know who she really is. Paris deserves to be given the same sentence as any other DUI convict violating probation by driving suspended. In MOST instances, thats a light slap on the wrist, not a month and a half in jail. And if the jail's normal time to serve is 10% of the actual sentence then she ought to serve just like any other DUI convict having their probation violated for driving suspended. No more, no less! IF the judge is making an example of her with unfair treatment...he'll pay in the long run!
War Damn Eagle!
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Child support is not a fine, its to feed your kids. It's a fine if I want to feed my own kids without paying somebody else to do it--otherwise it becomes mommy support. But this topic is about criminal law not family law. More accurately, criminal law vs civil law vs the quasi-crimilized family law--which seems to operate outside of the other two............. There are vast differences betweent the two. Not these days--see above. Child support and alimony SHOULD be based on income. Why one and not the other? Fines for a criminal act should fit the crime, not the offender. Why one and not the other? If the crime was of little consequence, the fine/punishment should reflect that. If the crime involved harming or placing annother person in danger.....LIKE A DUI, that should be a greater cost. The problem is, I know functioning alcholics who can drive better then some tee-totalers I know.......... My point is that the cost should be equal and ALL who commit that crime should pay the same cost. The price tag on the fine, in my opinion, should not be adjusted according to the persons income or social status. Except for?.........quasi-criminal family law? Yes, I realize what we are talking about--just pointing out the inconsistencies............... Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
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I admire that post, .280Rem, very much.
Good for you!
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. -- Daniel Webster
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� Paris is what she is...nothing more, nothing less...if you don't like her and you don't know her personally...then you can ONLY dislike her because she has more than you, doesn't have to work to be rich, doesn't have to work, etc. � , my friend! It is entirely logical, natural, and understandable � legitimate � to dislike her intensely on the basis of what she has publicly revealed herself to be. Is that all that she is? Let's hope not. Let's assume not. Is it an accurate impression of who she predominantly is? Probably. I don't like what I've seen of her, quite irrespective of how much money she's "worth." Neither character nor the dearth of it has all that much to do with income, savings, inheritance, or portfolio. I don't begrudge her a nickel of what she has, but I wouldn't pay a nickel for an hour of her time. oldie: "That horse is worth six hundred thousand dollars!" "Ridiculous! How could a horse save that much money?" 
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
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[quote=Idaho_Shooter][quote=280sRN] It always amazes me how some people have the mindset that if a person has more then they should have to pay more. In our never ceasing search for equality among the classes the theory of "equal sacrifice" has came into play with some, not all, but some. What is a sacrifice for me might not be for you. Should you then be required to pay till it hurts??? Paris can afford anythiing she wants, so is it fair to say that she must pay more than others, for the same crime, so that she feels SACRIFICE?
[i][b]Judges have a lot of latitude in their sentencing requirements. Wonder why that is? Perhaps it is because the legal system recognizes that it takes different levels of training to instill a lesson into different people.as if it never happened. [/b][/i]
Think about this scenario:
What if you were driving down the interstate and got pulled over for speeding, the car following behind you is speeding as well so that driver gets pulled over with you. Same cop pulls you both over. You were both, in fact, speeding. The cop was within the confines of the law to pull you both over and the cop is justified in writing you both a ticket as you wer both speeding.
Now..there was no question that you both were breaking the law.
But what if when you go to court the judge says "Driver of car B, you must pay a ticket and court costs that total $200.00. You have had a couple of warnings so now we gotta do something before you kill someone. I know you dont make that much money delivering pizza for Pizza Hut so Im gonna set your fines and court cost at $200.00. Dont do it again."
Then you go in front of the judge and he says, "Idaho Shooter, you have had a couple of tickets and a few warnings, same as car B. Im gonna set your fine and court costs at $800.00. I know you make more money than the driver of car B. He was in an old chevy and you were driving an S series Volvo. You work for a large high profile company and live in a fine home. So since it will hurt you more, your fine is much higher because "There are no lessons learned if there is no sacrifice."
Would you still think that is fair, is justice served?, or is that flat out wrong??? Same offense, same place, same situation. Shouldnt the punishment be the same? What if our legal system was to start requiring that people produce tax returns and bank statements before punishment was rendered?
It is none of my business what the judge does with the guy in car B. The only thing that is of any concern to me is, "Did I commit a crime?" Was the my sentence from the judge within the guidelines of the judicial system?" Here in Idaho anyway, the judge has a set of minimums and maximums. He can set the sentence anywhere between those extremes. And he has the power to suspend all or part of that sentence. That is why it is called justice. And that is why the judge gets all of those reports from the probation officers and looks at prior convictions before he sets sentence. The sentence handed down to "car B" simply is no skin off of my nose. I am not one to sit around and feel sorry for myself because my brother got a candy bar and I didn't. Him getting a candy bar did not hurt me any, nor did the fact that I did not get one. The world ain't fair and that is all there is to it. One can either accept that and get on with living one's life. Or one can sit around moping about it and feeling sorry for his or her self until one dies. NO, the world aint fair at all. But I can assure you that if you or someone you cared about received a sentence that was 5 times what someone else received for the same crime, you might feel a little unjustly treated. I dont know, you might not. I dont have a clue if Paris is moping and feeling sorry for herself. If she is, she shouldnt be. Cause fact of the matter is that her housekeeper is probably paid better than that judge will ever be and 45 days is not a lifetime. Her checking account will earn more intrest in those 45 days that some people will make in 20 years. I think she should serve her time, no matter how unjust she feels that it is. Seems like I remember her doing a show on the Simple Life where she stayed at a hog farm for a week. If she can do that, she can live thru a few weeks in the slammer. Then, when she gets out, she should go to some place exotic on a nice vacation. She should also send that judge a postcard from wherever she is and let him know that she will be donating a nice gift to whomever chooses to run against him in the next election.
"Courage is Fear holding on a minute longer."
-Gen. Patton
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I admire that post, .280Rem, very much.
Good for you! I appreciate it! Hell, I'm coming across as a Paris Hilton fan. I'm not, but I don't hate her either. I can't even honestly say I find her attractive, though if I were single and with her money...we'll I wouldn't stand a snowballs chance!  Seriously though...I'm not an Oprah fan either, but damned if she didn't put it right. (paraphrasing) "I don't have time to think about her, she's a non-issue in my life."
War Damn Eagle!
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I admire that post, .280Rem, very much.
Good for you! Me, too! Penny
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. --Hebrews 11:1
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You are SO contrary, Ken!
I expect Sam and I will fix that someday.
(Yes, we may bring lutefisk ... with BUTTER!)
Last edited by 41Keith; 06/08/07. Reason: spelling
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. -- Daniel Webster
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You see, courts/judges have to justify disparate treatment of offenders. Ones socio-economic status is not a legal reason to jail or imprison someone because the fine wont hurt enough. They do have discretion, but its not to take in to account the things you stated you would...good thing you're not a judge.
The judge is not concerned with "teaching a lesson" per se. He is, or should be concerned with the law. The law does not allow for stiffer punishment for the rich just like it doesn't for the poor. You punish the crime and the person as you would those similarly situated under the law. That means you can take in to account the good they have done, the harm they have done, their danger to the community, etc...one's bank account is not a legal reason to jail them when you wouldn't jail others for a similar offense and similar past criminal history because the fine wont hurt enough.
Everybody here has talked of money and privilege...can somebody tell me what that has gotten Paris in this venture? If I were keeping score I'd say she's well behind the power curve because of nothing more than who she is and the money she has. Her high powered lawyer didn't seem to be able to "beat the rap" in the original charge, nor keep them from violating her probation and sending her to jail. The only difference I see in her treatment vs. Jane Doe is that every move she makes she has a camera in her face...she can't take a vacation and not tell anyone where she is. The day she got sentenced on the DUI...how many others did to whose name we don't know? Yeah, she's getting special treatment alright...and I bet you her fortune she'd trade that "special treatment for being treated like the rest of L.A.'s convicted DUI drivers at this point.
As an aside...tell me why Paris should know or act any different. She was born with more money than she could ever spend...grew up and some might call her attractive though she'd not my type...and all her life she's done what she's done...now the "normal rich kids" in this world usually have to go to college and eventually make some of their own way, and if they do they grow up some and learn the ways of the real world...Paris on OTOH just about the time she needed to become an adult was offered a TV show...a chance to showcase her talents...that talent being a no ambition blond bimbo with no world skills...she made a profit being worthless as a contributor to society! Why! People thought it was entertaining...so know we have a 20 something rich girl...who has had it re-affirmed in her head that being who she is and acting that way is not only OK...people approve and will pay her to do so!
Paris is what she is...nothing more, nothing less...if you don't like her and you don't know her personally...then you can ONLY dislike her because she has more than you, doesn't have to work to be rich, doesn't have to work, etc...because as yet, nobody here has claimed to know her personally. And if the only thing you know about her is her TV/Hollywood persona...then your naive if you think you know who she really is.
Paris deserves to be given the same sentence as any other DUI convict violating probation by driving suspended. In MOST instances, thats a light slap on the wrist, not a month and a half in jail. And if the jail's normal time to serve is 10% of the actual sentence then she ought to serve just like any other DUI convict having their probation violated for driving suspended. No more, no less! IF the judge is making an example of her with unfair treatment...he'll pay in the long run!
Okay, that is the most informative thing I have read in this whole thread. My son got into a bit of trouble when he was about fifteen. The judge seemed genuinely concerned with teaching him a lesson. The judge's words and the sentence seemed to have nothing to do with a "debt to society" and everything to do with "Hey kid, you messed up. You need a lesson so that you know better than to mess up again. This is going to hurt, but it is for your own good." I was very impressed with the judge, and even my son admitted that she was very fair. I would not even want to think what this fine lady judge would have done with my son had he violated probation. As it turned out he completed all the requirements of his probation within the first eight weeks and his one year probation was dismissed after five months. While I do not have the benefit of a legal degree, that is justice to me. Ms Hilton was apparently given every chance to repent and behave herself after her first offense. She refused and in my mind she needs jail time. If not every offender gets the same jail time, that does not mean she deserves or needs it any less, it just means that others need it as well. Ms Hilton is an adult. She is free to make her own choices in the world. She is apparently bright enough to see the consequences of those choices. So no, I feel no sympathy for her. It is unfortunate that her mother and father had better things to do than instill the most basic of values into their child. But I know a lot of people who have done much better with even less parenting. Paris is what she is...nothing more, nothing less...if you don't like her and you don't know her personally...then you can ONLY dislike her because she has more than you, Now it is you who are making false assumptions. I have seen Ms Hilton on her TV show, and I have seen enough news reports of her antics to make a valid judgment of her character. I do not believe for one instant that she is a good enough actress for her persona on her show to be pretend. In actuality, all one needs to know about her to make a valid judgment of her character, is that she refuses to honor the suspension of her license. She thinks the law does not apply to her. I know others like that and they don't have any money. They should still be treated just as harshly as she. There are a lot of people in this country who have a lot more money than the Hiltons. I bear them no ill will. Nor do I the Hiltons. But I do have a problem with spoiled brats of any economic class who thumb their noses at authority.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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You are SO contrary, Ken!
I expect Sam and I wil fix that someday.
(Yes, we may bring lutefisk ... with BUTTER!)
I can cope with lutefisk now, no butter required. � Liquefy in Vita-Mix machine. (Add water if necessary.) � Pour into feeding tube protruding from lower chest. ( No taste buds!) I've always said of this *&^%$#@! tube, to give credit where credit is due, It's the way to go if you have to eat lutefisk!
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
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I think you've made many valid points there, but they serve your general point best without enforcement of a possibly illegal nature.
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. -- Daniel Webster
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You'll blend everything? OOOoo, so good.
Think anchovies, Ken. Yes, anchovies & lutefisk. It works.
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. -- Daniel Webster
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Then, when she gets out, she should go to some place exotic on a nice vacation. She should also send that judge a postcard from wherever she is and let him know that she will be donating a nice gift to whomever chooses to run against him in the next election. Now see the difference in the way our minds work. I think the little tart needs to send the judge a note of apology for being such pain in his butt, and showing such contempt for his court and the legal system. Then she should thank him for his generosity and leniency the first couple times she got into trouble. And then she should thank him again for giving her the wake up call she needed to get her life on track and become a productive member of society. And if she were my kid, I'd be kicking her butt until she did all of those things.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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What do lutefisk and Paris have in common?
They both a little fishy.
I'll binge on either(simultaneously).....
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If the judge were my agent, I may well send him a similar message to convey to the spoiled Miss Hilton, but he isn't my agent, nor is he yours.
He's an agent of the law though, the last I saw things.
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. -- Daniel Webster
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What do lutefisk and Paris have in common? � Absolute lack of attraction.
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
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Sam, I'm just telling you right now that in days to come we may view some things differently, but so far you seem to be my younger brother I haven't yet found.
Such profound sensibilities we have in common have just about got to be genetic somehow.
Lefse... Brown sugar with it now and again, with cinnamon?
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. -- Daniel Webster
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What do lutefisk and Paris have in common? � Absolute lack of attraction. Ken, I have absolutely no idea what "lutefisk" is. But it must be really horrid if a comparison to Ms Hilton is valid. You and I might have similar taste in ladies. How do you feel about Sally Field? Ah, now there is a brighter topic!
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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