Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles AR-15 For Repelling Boarders, Red Dot or Traditional Peep Sight?

Have you seen the donut in the BUshnell Elite series. I actually didn’t think I’d like it as much as I do, but down on 1x it’s about like an EOTEC arrangement. Not saying it’s perfect but it’s pretty quick and spun up to 8.5x you get the full use of the reticle. Just a different look I guess.

We put a Bushnell holo on Carolyns truck gun. A donut with dots basically. A friend had it. Did not like it. I love it. Quick and fast up close, you know center of donut is on, and going out further the dots help with holdovers. 3 X fixed. Illuminated if you want to turn it on. I rarely have use for illumination

Not necessarily in the scope of the OP’s questions but what about a red dot-sighted AR-style pistol chambered to 9mm (FX9-style) with back-up fold-down peep sight co-witnessed with the red dot and folded down. A stream light w/ switch on dominant side with switch on top of fore end.

Then you have a handier firearm, one in a cartridge less likely to over penetrate, a good primary sight, a backup, and a light.

This is the route I’ve gone in...

9mm less likely to over penetrate vs. .223 is highly debatable given smart ammunition choice. But that's a different topic.

What about decibel level in close quarters? Most don’t have a suppressor. I’d rather have a 9mm going off in a long barrel than a 223 in any barrel length in a close quarters scenario. In such a situation putting ear muffs on in a hurry may not be feasible when in a rush. This scenario seems to be consistent with the discussion.

I bought the lightest, most basic AR Bud had in stock the day I went shopping for one,..a short gas system, pencil barrel, no front sight Bushmaster QRC.

My initial plan was to outfit it with a red dot. But mounting a red dot informed me that I have stigmatism. So I went with a simple 1X Vortex scope. The scope and mount added about a pound to the rifle, but I took about 5 ounces of that off by changing out the rattly M4 stock with the Battleling Minamalist stock from Mission First. It fits very tightly and weighs close to nothing.

I'm not interested in all the geegaws that can be had for an AR. I just wanted a light, effective house rifle. This one now weighs 6.7 pounds with scope and mount.

I could use a lighter scope and mount to skim a few more ounces, but what's on it works very well and it's already on the lighter end of the scale.

Considering how little money I have in it, I think it's a fairly nice tool for its intended purpose.

Shotgun fit for shooting birds at 10-40 YARDS, has squat to do with shooting around corners and down hallways in the dark, at 10-40 FEET, and trying to hit with a pattern the size of a golf ball through coffee saucer. Sighting of some sort mandatory, ‘fit’ or not.....we always hope we can shoulder/cheek the gun, but Murphy runs gunfights, not me. I’ve found the 1-4 trijicon stuff, and other LPVs and prisms, to be as fast for me as any RDS, though I do think the open types like eotechs and minis seem faster, but we shotgunned over our sights, as much as actually using them, up close....more peripheral awareness....the theory, anyway. Most tunnel pretty bad.

well one could be stupid to say that the better a gun fits one the better they shoot it. Rifle or shotgun.

If not, then LOTS of match shooters are dumb [bleep] for making the rifles fit them really well so that the NPA is on and so on. It sure helps when you tunnel vision and forget the sights etc..... Helps a LOT.

Or you can get a whatever stock and just deal with it. Again if you shoot that enough, you'll learn to shoot it well enough instinctively. In fact... thats how instinctive bow shooting works. But again there, a bow that fits and shoots where you look takes much LESS practice to hit with and be consistent.

To say otherwise is kind of off a bit.

That said if you can't get a good handle on the weapon then you sure need a sight of some kind, that said I fail to see how the weapon fitting good hurts one if they have to be contorted and force to use a sight.

The notion that a 9mm penetrates household barriers less than a .223 is false.

You're damaging your ears regardless.

And you're not going to notice it until after the fact.

Slow down. I didn’t say it ‘hurt’, but if that’s all it has going for it vs other options more suitable for the task, then I’ll take learning to run the gun, and I won’t be dragging out the fitted SC or bench rifle, in lieu of something made for HD. You’d also be surprised how absolutely great that ARs and other defense-themed firearms fit many, many people. you might also be shocked to learn that they’re far more quick and maneuverable than a fitted sporting shotgun or rifle, within the arena we’re discussing. all I’m sayin

Amazing you can't "shoulder/cheek" a shotgun to aim it but I guess you shoot from the hip with a 1-4 or other LPV and red dots? And then you say you just shotgunned over your sights anyway?

I'm taking notes, keep the tips coming!

Not sure how you’re getting that take, but your notes may need work, if that’s where you’re at. You have to be on the stock, exactly the same, in every dimension, every time, for fit vs poa/poi to work as intended with shotguns. You only need to SEE a dot, which can happen from a myriad of short, long, non vertical, or otherwise unclean mounts and positions, as can shotgunning over irons, OR using a bead, rib, barrel...quickly. All of which work whether ‘fit’ does or not. I can rely on fit at five stand, the blind, or the bench. I’d prefer not to have to when moving, taking cover, or otherwise not stable and static, with someone potentially trying to shoot at me.

What you suggest for .223 as smart choice that will do the job but not over penetrate more than 9mm?

Choice in my Glock is Federal Premium 124 GR HP and I’ll run that in longer gun as well.





Same question for you.

I need to learn I have neighbors close by.

Any type of duty hollow points or soft point will penetrate less than your 124gr 9mm load.

This applies to a wide range of barriers/cover.

The odds of 5.56 punching through an exterior wall and killing somebody on the other side is so slim that I wouldn't even consider it a factor.

....unless your shooting steel core, and most days heavier fmj. Last local LE gunfight was with a meth head who shot a cop in the leg during a car chase. Backup rolled in with ARs and 62gr gtips, and shot him 40-60? times before incapacitating him. He was behind a vehicle, in front of a barn, which many of the rounds went completely through and continued on to puncture three roofs a half mile away. Local PD had to pay for the repairs. LOL. Brick or thick wood will catch them, though. Any good non-fmj/target HP bullet will do, and some heavier match HPs do well, also. Don’t know what the latest craze is, but most soft points, bonded, tactical, even varmint loads are more effective and safe than any fmj in a home scenario.....but others will be more up on technicalities and specific loads and such.

I observed an FBI protocol demonstration last year. Federal tactical 55 grain was dismal against clothed gelatin after passing through each of wallboard, plywood, glass and steel compared to 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP Gold Dots. The round went to pieces. 62 grain and 75 grain Gold Dots did better in gel than the Federal after passing through those barriers, but they still didn't outpenetrate the handgun rounds to the best of my recollection. Of course, against bare and clothed gel, all of the .223 rounds did impressive damage compared to the handgun rounds and still did not overpenetrate. I personally wouldn't worry about any of those .223 rounds, and I would use a 9mm before using the 55 grain if I needed to penetrate any barrier. Of course, use the 55 grain if you want less chance of penetration than with your handgun (if a barrier is involved).

I can't speak to steel core. That's just a bad idea for home defense.

YMMV

I'd put my money on a regular wingshooter in most in-home shootings over just about anyone who had trained principally on a range. And that in particular for those who have jump shot upland birds or hunted ruffed grouse.

If a guy jump shoots upland birds well enough to stay interested in the game for a 3rd season he'd be very capable.

Cheyenne, HHS4w, and Deflave thanks a lot that is all very helpful I really appreciate the insights I’ve obviously been misinformed.

Yea, that's the guy I want to go up against. The one who shoots 500 rounds a weekend at little disks flying 75mph.