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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,726 Likes: 19
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,726 Likes: 19 |
My nephew's department made the switch from the Glock 22/23 to the 17/19 last year. He's happier with his 19 than he was with his 22. He says he shoots it better, and doesn't feel disadvantaged.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 |
Everybody isn't a gunfighter. No matter that they think they are.
What would you call a hit ratio of 26:1?
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1 |
Everybody isn't a gunfighter. No matter that they think they are.
What would you call a hit ratio of 26:1? Shooting at a moving target that is shooting g af you and trying to keep from getting hit isn't like shooting on a firing line
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,856
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,856 |
Does the fact that a bullet can penetrate a 1/8 steel plate have any relevance when shooting at people? Yes, there is that one in a thousand chance of the bad guy hiding behind steel, but other than that...
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,412
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,412 |
Does the fact that a bullet can penetrate a 1/8 steel plate have any relevance when shooting at people? Yes, there is that one in a thousand chance of the bad guy hiding behind steel, but other than that... Yes it does. Three times in the last year we’ve had azzhats try to drive over an officer. Meth and desperation make for some interesting chit.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1 |
Does the fact that a bullet can penetrate a 1/8 steel plate have any relevance when shooting at people? Yes, there is that one in a thousand chance of the bad guy hiding behind steel, but other than that... Hell yes it does. What do you think car doors are made of? Many rounds will go through the door bug not it they hit the steel wi dow roll up mechanism but the 357 Sig will go through any way
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,856
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,856 |
Does the fact that a bullet can penetrate a 1/8 steel plate have any relevance when shooting at people? Yes, there is that one in a thousand chance of the bad guy hiding behind steel, but other than that... . What do you think car doors are made of? Not 1/8"
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1 |
Does the fact that a bullet can penetrate a 1/8 steel plate have any relevance when shooting at people? Yes, there is that one in a thousand chance of the bad guy hiding behind steel, but other than that... . What do you think car doors are made of? Not 1/8" You have never shot a car door. I can tell by your posts and you completely ignored the part about the steel window rollup mechanism
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,170
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,170 |
Have you ever looked inside a car door? There ain't much there.
A good shooter is gonna make hits with whatever caliber he has. A bad shooter is still gonna be a bad shooter.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1 |
Have you ever looked inside a car door? There ain't much there.
A good shooter is gonna make hits with whatever caliber he has. A bad shooter is still gonna be a bad shooter. Unless you hit the steel wi Dow roll mechanism and i you do 9am +P, 45 ACP +P will not go through it. The 357 Sig will as will 35i mag, 41 and 44 mag. I've never tried the 40 S&W
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,886
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,886 |
Does the fact that a bullet can penetrate a 1/8 steel plate have any relevance when shooting at people? Yes, there is that one in a thousand chance of the bad guy hiding behind steel, but other than that... Hell yes it does. What do you think car doors are made of? Many rounds will go through the door bug not it they hit the steel wi dow roll up mechanism but the 357 Sig will go through any way I think you could easily drill 1/8 " mild steel" with an AP parabellum - maybe even a Mak. (with standard Russian Mil. cart.) would do that ; but - 357 Sig. will do it with H.P.s. 357 Sig. is a superb L.E. cartridge.
Last edited by night_owl; 05/01/20.
abusus non tollit usum
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,856
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,856 |
You have never shot a car door. I can tell by your posts and you completely ignored the part about the steel window rollup mechanism
I haven't shot pigs released from a cage and filmed it, either.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
While jwp's penetration test is interesting, it takes us down a rabbit hole that needn't be explored.
You're not going to convince somebody to equip 20K gun carriers because the cartridge in question can sometimes penetrate a window regulator.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 |
Everybody isn't a gunfighter. No matter that they think they are.
What would you call a hit ratio of 26:1? Shooting at a moving target that is shooting g af you and trying to keep from getting hit isn't like shooting on a firing line I figured that, but eight FBI agents after an astounding number of rounds expended and the 26 rounds expended where (if I read the narrative correctly) were from behind and using the hood of a car as a rest/cover. One of the biggest "takeaways" from this and other shootings is LEOs do not receive enough training/practice...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
I'm pretty sure the takeaways from this shooting have been addressed by any department or agency that's worth a fugk.
It happened in 1986.
And it's interesting that at the time, the FBI followed the advice of gun nuts. Only to discover years later, that gun nuts don't necessarily know WTF they're talking about when it comes to police work and real world shooting.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 |
I'm pretty sure the takeaways from this shooting have been addressed by any department or agency that's worth a fugk.
It happened in 1986.
And it's interesting that at the time, the FBI followed the advice of gun nuts. Only to discover years later, that gun nuts don't necessarily know WTF they're talking about when it comes to police work and real world shooting. Well, SOMEBODY's recommending stuff I wouldn't.... 
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Well, SOMEBODY's recommending stuff I wouldn't.... If the FBI endorsed the 10mm tomorrow, all the deer hunters and backpackers of the world would applaud.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1 |
You have never shot a car door. I can tell by your posts and you completely ignored the part about the steel window rollup mechanism
I haven't shot pigs released from a cage and filmed it, either. right over your head
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1 |
While jwp's penetration test is interesting, it takes us down a rabbit hole that needn't be explored.
You're not going to convince somebody to equip 20K gun carriers because the cartridge in question can sometimes penetrate a window regulator. no disagreement
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 341
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 341 |
I swear this topic gets posted just to start arguments. I can promise you that .02 of bullet diameter is not really that important in a gunfight. 40's work fine, but so do 9mm's and 45's and 357 Sigs, and several others. Some of you argue about this like it's religion.
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