Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer -- .30-06 and .300 H&H

I've had an itch to explore a minor historical point with you for some time.

A while back, your article on the admirable achievements of the .30-06 included a brief suggestion that the Brits evolved the .300 H&H in reaction to the challenge of American innovations with the .30-06. One caliber followed the other chronologically but I am not sure about a linkage.

I am innocent of any specific knowledge on the point, but my perception of the English at that time is that they were very much still, in their own minds at least, the center of world. Their empire was fairly intact and the empire builders still on top of the heap. They imitated "foreign" achievements reluctantly -- if at all -- and were more prone to wallow in old technologies on which their wealth and self image was based. This was one reason why they were so ill-prepared for WWII.

I would be interested in any details on how the .30-06 penetrated this wall of Brit self satisfaction. Did it make a big splash in African big game hunting at that time? And what about the .303 Enfield as the Brit 'answer' to the .30-06 challenge?

Thanks,
1B

All I know is that the .300 H&H came out well after the .30-06, with ballistics that were basically identical to the .30-06 at the time. Have read more than once that this was their attempt to match '06 numbers with Cordite.

My only gauge on its reception is some of the British hunting literature of the time, which seemed receptive, at least among those who could accept any bullet below 250 grains at more than 2500 fps. John Taylor liked it a lot, for instance, for plains game.

But obviously the .303 was a LOT more popular, and for some of the same reasons the .30-06 was popular over here: lots of surpruls military rifles, ammo, etc., plus adequate killing power.

Today, of course, the .30-06 is far more popular than either in Africa, as is the .300 Winchester Magnum.

JB

Comparing the 303 Brit to the 30-06 is like comparing a Chevette to a Corvette.imo

The .303 was more related to the .308 in power and not full equal of the .30/06. I used it a lot in my earlier days for obvious reasons and it killed medium game very well, as you would expect. The 10 shot magazine was pretty handy too, for culling work.

Needless to say, many on the African continent used it on from plains game up to elephant, not becuse it was ideal, but mostly because it was all that had at the time. With a 215 gn RN bullet, it scored a few kills to its credit.


AGW

If there was any justice, the 300 H&H would be much more popular than it is, and it's one of those cartridges that deserves a serious revival. It's extremely shootable, just as accurate as the 300 Win. Mag., burns less powder, achieves just about the same velocities, and it feeds like a dream. Everything about it is easy, enjoyable, effective, and practical, and it's the perfect running mate to a 375 H&H or 416.

Many times I've read the year 1925 as the year of it's introduction, but I've never been certain that this was the actual year it was first offered............

AD

Allen: FWIW, the following is from Wikipdia:

"The .300 Holland and Holland Magnum Cartridge first became available in 1937. The case was belted like the 375 HH Magnum, and is based on the same case, as also is the .244 H&H Magnum."

I know that 1937 was the year it was introduced as a factory chambering in this country, and it was one of the original chamberings for the Winchester Model 70, which was introduced that same year.

AD

I believe Western cartridge co was still making loaded rounds in the 50's..

I have a friend who got his 1949 Model 70 from his Grandfather and has been using it for 30 years. I am building my 1st real �heirloom� rifle with a wood stock in a Model 70 by IMHO one of the best in the ACGG. After very little thought because I love the cartridge it is going to be a 300 H&H!

Yeah, that gets repeated over and over in various gun magazines and books.

Winchester started loading the .300 H&H and .375 H&H in 1925. Some books state that the .300 H&H was introduced in 1925, implying by H&H (and Kynoch). I think they're confusing the 1925 introduction in America by Winchester as the year of introduction of the cartridge itself.

If H&H (and Kynoch) introduced the cartridge in 1925, I don't see how Winchester would have started loading it the same year. Remember, this is in the 1920s... Information, etc. traveled slower then. It would have taken Winchester some time to first find out about the new cartridge, and then time to test and work up their load specs for their factory ammo. (I believe Kynoch loaded the .300 H&H with Cordite while Winchester used nitro-cellulose powders.)

I have seen some sources (Ken Waters and Finn Aagaard among others) that list the original introduction, by H&H and Kynoch, of the .300 H&H as 1920. That makes more sense. My guess is that H&H almost had the .300 H&H cartridge ready to go about 1914 or so and then World War I intervened delaying the introduction until just after the war. So, just after the war, H&H introduces the new cartridge in 1920. A few years after that, in 1925, Winchester picks up both the .300 H&H and the .375 H&H as factory loaded ammo.

My two cents...
-Bob F.

Federal and Winchester still make .300 H&H ammo. Federal even offers a 180 gr Barnes TSX load in the .300 H&H.

-Bob F.

IIRC, the .303 came out in approximately 1888; long before the .30-06 (or even the .30-03). The .30-03 Springfield (1903) was a response by America to catch up with such military rounds as the 7x57 (1892), 8x57J (1888), .303 British (1888) and 8mm Lebel (1886). The .30-06 (1906) came about as result of the German's bringing out the 8x57JS in 1905 loaded with a spitzer bullet.

-Bob F.

The year I have seen for the .300 H&H is 1920.

JB

Well a Nations service cartridge is going to be popular as a sporting round. You would expect the 303 British to be popluar in the Empire and the Commomwealth. For Us Americians the 30-06 then the Nato 7.62 (308 Winchester for those of you in Rio Linda) and the 5.56 or 223 Remington.

As for the 300 H+H yea is should be a lot more popular that it is, the 300 Winchester just about killed it. Now it would be nice if Ruger would do a version of the new Hawkeye African in that chambering. But i doubt that it would ever happen. As far as 300's go its a Winchester world. Just one of the curses of the modern era. By rights we should be shooting Rigby Mausers in 275. And the Sun never sets on the British Empire the world would be a better place.

Since the .300 H&H is too long for the Hawkeye magazine, ain't gonna happen.

JB

I love the .303. Softly constructed 180s from my Mk V Jungle carbine really swat deer. I think of it as a handy, 200 yard, 10-shot .30-30.

Expat

If only the 30 Newton had prevailed.

In the USA the 30-06 outsold the 300 HH a zillion to one. We could get 06 ammo almost free. Who could afford to shoot a 300? And those stocks they had then really kicked and hurt.

The 300 HH is an awful design but ripe with nostalgia, Harry Selby- Super 30 and all. Yes I have one too.

The Super 30 is about 7% faster than an 06 and is a lot of bother.

Thats why it's dead.

Allen: Ditto your comments on the 300H&H. Have owned and shot 4-5 of them, all pre64 M70's and everything you say is true.Every one of them was an excellent shooter and very easy to work up loads for. I took one to Alberta 4 years ago; everyone in the outfit was in their 20's, and no one knew what it was! But I let a guide use it to fill his tag on a big whitetail and he procaimed it old, but very effective!

So the 300 HH is 'effective' and easy to work up loads for (as if the 30-06 is not).

Then why is the 300 HH dead?

"REM BRASS 300 H&H UNPRM BULK PER 100, The item "REM BRASS 300 H&H UNPRM BULK PER 100" is currently out of stock."

Winchester brass for the 300 HH is not even listed!

I see a trend here.

Savage: I was not comparing the two cartridges, just commenting on the H&H.The H&H is dead because a lot of advertising to sell more rifles was generated about the alleged superiority of the 300 Win and Weatherby, and these two won the popularity contest; sorta the same phenom we see today over the 300win vs the 300WSM. People tend to be easy marks for Madison Ave advertising, and saw advantages (many of which do not really exist) for the new cartridges.

Course, we all know, the 300H&H beats the 30/06 in the velocity department, hands down..........Not much sense comparing those two.Spend much time with a 300H&H and you'll find it is just as fast as the 300 win, and only 100-150 fps behind he 300 Weatherby. These 3 cartridges are as alike as a lineup of Las Vegas dancers..................