Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles neck tension

I have a Lee 223 die set and am loading 64 grain power points for deer hunting. I seated half a dozen and happened to pick one up just right and with just finger pressure I pushed the bullet down into the case. I adjusted the sizer die and seated them longer as well, hoping I just had it at the ogive.

Not so. Still will sink into the case if I put much pressure on at all.

What?!

Doubt the die is out of spec, I have used it before with no trouble.

Is the die seated in the press correctly? Touching shell holder at top of stroke plus 1/4 turn?

No I left it set to neck size. Never had an issue before

Had the same issue with some 55 sp Win bullets.

The only part of the bullet that measured .224 was the very base and they tapered down to the cannelure.

I could get them to run just fine if I seated them out past magazine length but I wanted to run them in an AR so it was a no go.

I did send them back to Win who stated they were in spec.

I swore off Win ammo and components afterward.

Wondered about that...I dropped and broke my micrometer so I can't measure that

Easy fix with a Lee die set... your don't do the camming effect like you do with an RCBS die..

If you used the neck sizer, it wasn't tightened down enough...

Occasionally I will get that problem as I use a lot of Range Brass...

had 3 out of 50 last night that was doing the same thing... easy fix... took the spindle out of the F/L sizing die..
lubed the case necks and ran them up in the die, just enough to give them a light roll crimp..works just fine..

I lube the necks with a Q tip and a little spray lube on the Q Tip...

Cranked the die to size all the way. Still happening. Think it's a bullet issue

rare but it happens.. still doing a roll crimp should solve that issue tho. at least has for me always... been doing that for a long time.

You got a factory crimp die?

Heck no lol haven't crimped a damn thing in 10 plus years. No semi autos here so no need

If nothing's changed, yep, I'd measure the bullets.

Of, if my mike was busted, grab another bullet from another brand and see how THAT seats.

The Lee dies come with just a lock ring - no set screw to make sure the die is in exactly the same position each time you screw it onto the press. They use an O-ring system that I don’t care for.

I had the same thing happen to me with some .204 cases and found the die wasn’t threaded all the way down. Reset the die and all was well. I’ve since replaced all of the lock rings with RCBS and eliminated the issue

I leave mine in the turret for that reason. Just swap the turret when I need to change dies

How many firings on casings? My guess is to anneal the necks. I usually just toss them.

One

How is that set correctly?

Just more poor advice from people that dont know how to properly set up a die set mathman. You see it all the time here buddy.

I would appreciate some concise directions on how to properly set up a seating die for a bottleneck rifle cartridge. It seems each brand of dies has their own twist on how to set it up. Should the die touch the shell holder at the top of the stroke?

Put a case in the shellholder, raise the ram to the top, screw the die in till it either touches the shellholder or you feel slight resistance from the case then back off half a turn and set the locknut.
Now adjust the seating stem to get the OAL you want

It isn't any one way. The particular adjustment depends on how your die interacts with the brass from your chamber. A FL die should be turned into the press just enough to ensure smooth chambering for the sized brass. Whether that's just off the shell holder, flush against it, or a quarter turn past flush is what you have to find out. It's a bit of cut and try, but once you've done it for that die and brass from that chamber you're all set.

That doesn't exist Cliff....

Each brand is a bit different...My main preference these days ( and it ain't the quickest ) is to neck size with a Lee Collet die.. and then bump the shoulder back with a Redding Body die... OR a F/L Die with the spindle removed, from a die set that is one caliber bigger ( example: using a 260 die for a 243 body die )...

I also anneal my brass after each firing any more...got that from Pat/ Scenar Shooter.. and if its good enough for Pat, its perfect for me...I do what I consider the Pro's do....

averaging 40 & 50 reloads out of a piece of brass is not unusual for me...and they are still good for more..
ya just maintain it like you would anything else... give it the attention, it will yield a good service life..

If I use F/L dies to resize, for RCBS, I tighten those down until they contact a lifted ram... then give them an 1/8 turn to camming effect.. as that is what the factory says.. but they recommend a 1/4 turn more instead..

Lee F/L dies, I just tighten them down until they hit the raised ram...that is what their instructions say.

I only have a couple of Redding die sets, and don't use them much...just the 4 or 5 body dies I have...

I have some Hornady Dies, but to tell the truth, I don't care for their die sets...I do use their neck sizing dies on a few cases or applications... but I consider those specialty dies.. those I tighten down until they contact a lifted ram...

after all of that... when setting the die up, I still adjust the die, after trying out the case in the chamber of the rifle it will be fired in..

I look at resizing die, like resizing a foot to fit into a shoe...
size 12 feet don't fit well into a size 10 shoe... size 8 feet in a size 10 shoe are sloppy and will cause problems..
not all feet are a perfect size.. nor are any shoes a perfect size...its a little trial and error..
things vary when it comes to size...

I test all this out before I start reloading a batch of ammo, by making a dummy round...

I usually leave a dummy round in the box of bullets for each caliber that I load a lot of... I keep bullets in after market boxes that will hold from 500 to 1000 bullets...so say a 22 caliber, 55 grain box of bullets, will have a dummy 223 and dummy 22/250 round I keep in the that box for that bullet..makes life easier for me...

I handload 200 to 500 bullets a week on average... not just for me.. but for friends etc...

like this past week I loaded 500 rounds for a friend over at the college..he supplies the components..I do the loading
in return, I get to use the rack over in automotive dept when I need to do repairs on something.. or the students do the work, when they need the exposure...one hand washing the other...

Instructions supplied with die sets more often than not lead to excessive sizing of the brass. Generally their intent is to ensure a case fired in this chamber (however loose) is sized enough to fit that chamber (however tight).

Mmm, maybe you should re read the post you quoted, that isn’t how to set up a seating die

agree.. but I have gotten instructions verbally from one of the technicians by calling the manufacturer...

they'll tell ya the instructions say "this".. but they recommend "that way" instead...
and they have told me, nothing is set in stone...for the best "fit" you have to cater to the variables each chamber and round presents...

Well it has been for me, for a decade or a couple of them...

and considering the case life I get out of doing that way.. and how little it needs to be resized, because it was set to fit the chamber of the rifle...I'll stick with the advice I've been given from factory techs and some of the folks I look up to on the campfire here...

Thanks to all for your help. It looks like I'm not as far off in my technique as I thought I might be.

I didn't read every response but I chuck my expander ball and stem into my drill press and use emery paper to reduce the size of the ball to increase the neck tension. It may take some turning but it only takes a few thousands off to tighten up the neck.

kwg

Many small variations can easily add up. In a perfect world (which does not exist) all the stars will be in alignment all the time.


Brass thickness...

Die specs...

Chamber specs...

Life of said chamber (how many rounds fired)…

Headspace ???...

I could go on but the point being the instructions that come with a die set are a good start point but anyone that has handrolled ammo for awhile has more than a few tricks up their sleeve.

Can you safely shoot a bottle neck cartridge that has excessive headspace? Yes only with handloads tailored for that chamber (essentially a wildcat). You CANNOT use factory ammo and you will not follow die set up instructions from the die manufacturer. You will probably be fireforming also.

This is an extreme example meant to show (as some have pointed out) there is no one always correct way to do it …….

In all my years of doing this I have found that there is only one hard and fast rule. Every rifle is a rule unto itself...

Small variations.

The OP said the die had been used successfully before. Now the neck tension is insufficient. So it seems like for the current lot of brass the neck section of the die is too large. Reducing the diameter of the expander won't help if this is the case.

For example, one of my 308 dies is a Forster that has been honed out to work harmoniously with thicker brass such as Federal or Lapua. Even with no expander at all if I size WW brass in it the neck won't hold a bullet.

Too bad you can't afford to get a new micrometer - that would remove all doubt on the bullet diameter. But let's keep talking about proper die setup . . .