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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
On multiple occasions people have complained about comparisons of cartridges using ballistic data, claiming they are boring and/or uninformative. For those complainers, naysayers and whiners, I have a simple question:
Without ballistic information, how do you determine the suitability of a cartridge for your needs?
No using ballistic table data of any kind, whether from calculators, reloading books or manufacturers.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,264
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,264 |
I used to love pouring over ballistic data and looking for the latest greatest in all things rifle cartridge. Now, I just don’t have the bandwidth. If it’s in the realm of normal/adequate, I’m good. Some day I’ll get back to tweaking and refining
"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 4,680
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 4,680 |
You just google "will [insert cartridge] kill an elk" and go with the search results summary.
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 121
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 121 |
Well, you really need to consider many practical factors.
- Availability of bullets for your velocity, distance and purpose - magazine capacity - Availability of quality brass - Availability of reasonably priced dies - Reamer availability
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,816 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,816 Likes: 2 |
Well, you have this gun. And it's your gun. And because it's your gun, it's the best. And everyone should have one just like your best gun.
Because that makes you...feel better about....you!
So let's all buy a XXXX in 30-06, 270, or 243. Scope it with a XXXXX. And shoot XXXXX ammo.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,083
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,083 |
I go with whatever a well-respected gun writer chappy thought was a good idea ten years before i was born. Plus it has to give me the warm feelers. You know, the scientific method.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,301 Likes: 9
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,301 Likes: 9 |
Place a 257 Weatherby cartridge next to a 264 magnum cartridge
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,951
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,951 |
My decisions were initially determined with cartridge availability and popularity.....as in a former or present military cartridge. However, I was “only” 14 years old at the time! With a bit more cash available, I went with cartridges recommended and approved of by reputable “ole” time hunters/writers. These have performed admirably and have only gotten better with improved powders and bullets available! The newer “superstars” of the shooting world, “only” marginally perform better than some of the old standards! memtb
Last edited by memtb; 05/18/20.
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,084 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,084 Likes: 2 |
When I was a young person around 1970 plus or minus, I went with popular calibers and cartridges used by locals with good success. The 30/30 wasn't that good at stopping deer but the .30-06 was. The gunwriters in any magazine vouched for .30-06 so it was a natural choice. A few (very few) progressives around here acquired .270 W. but it never seemed an improvement over the -06. Now when I needed a lower recoiling semi auto rifle for flock shooting fleeing sounders of hogs I went for .223 in an AR. I learned from news reports that it was extremely deadly on fleeing students in mass killings so I figured it would work the same on pigs. Wasn't disappointed at all. So I guess The answer is I use what others have already used for a long time with good results and have already done the load research. When I bought a rifle for my daughter at age 9 I took a recommendation from our local range master and bought the thoroughly vetted .243W. Of course it's easy to see I'm not very adventurous when it comes to something as important as a deadly weapon. Of late I've been very impressed with my neighbor's 6.5 Grendel although I told him I never would have considered buying one before using his.
Last edited by Hastings; 05/17/20.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,088 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,088 Likes: 6 |
On multiple occasions people have complained about comparisons of cartridges using ballistic data, claiming they are boring and/or uninformative. For those complainers, naysayers and whiners, I have a simple question:
Without ballistic information, how do you determine the suitability of a cartridge for your needs?
No using ballistic table data of any kind, whether from calculators, reloading books or manufacturers.
Get out the yardstick. We can start comparing...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,296
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,296 |
Place a 257 Weatherby cartridge next to a 264 magnum cartridge i have both these cartridges and both are true buck killers at long distances too !
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,939 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,939 Likes: 2 |
I've come to the conclusion that almost any cartridge from 26 caliber to 35 caliber will kill any game animal in the lower 48 with proper bullet choice. It comes down to how much recoil you're willing to tolerate, how important availability of and the price of ammo is to you, and how close you are willing to get before pulling the trigger.
There is a reason the commonly available cartridges are so common.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,206
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,206 |
On multiple occasions people have complained about comparisons of cartridges using ballistic data, claiming they are boring and/or uninformative. For those complainers, naysayers and whiners, I have a simple question:
Without ballistic information, how do you determine the suitability of a cartridge for your needs?
No using ballistic table data of any kind, whether from calculators, reloading books or manufacturers.
It depends on what your intended target is and at what ranges you'll be shooting. Shooting competitive paper requires a lot more precision than most hunting scenarios. Shooting gsquirrels requires more precision than shooting medium game at comparable ranges. Shooting medium game in wide open spaces typically requires more precision than is required for still-hunting the same game in tight cover. I've observed that most casual deer hunters in the U.S. don't have a clue about the ballistics of their rifle/cartridge/bullet combination. At shorter ranges, say under 200+/- yards, ballistics don't matter than much, particularly when you consider all of the variables that influence the outcome.
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,127
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,127 |
We all know that a 270 trumps all the rest of them.
The cow is where you are, the bull is where you want to be.
No one gets something for nothing unless someone else got nothing for something.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 481
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 481 |
[/quote] I've observed that most casual deer hunters in the U.S. don't have a clue about the ballistics of their rifle/cartridge/bullet combination. At shorter ranges, say under 200+/- yards, ballistics don't matter than much, particularly when you consider all of the variables that influence the outcome.[/quote]
It's not uncommon for folks around here to get the ballistics from the back of the ammo box.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,075 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,075 Likes: 5 |
On multiple occasions people have complained about comparisons of cartridges using ballistic data, claiming they are boring and/or uninformative. For those complainers, naysayers and whiners, I have a simple question:
Without ballistic information, how do you determine the suitability of a cartridge for your needs?
Wrong question. Lots of people who are choosing between two different cartridges will look at ballistic data, myself included. It's really useful for some purposes.. But evaluating how effective a cartridge will be using only ballistic data is a fool's errand. It's also something that anyone with a computer can look up on their own if they want to. Ballistics data is also boring as hell, unless you're doing your own evaluations, for your own purposes. I'd much rather read (and heed) someone's first-hand experience with a particular cartridge or bullet than read about something I can look up on my own, if I'm interested. So maybe the question should be, are people really interested in my interpretation and comments on information they have at their fingertips? If the answer is "yes," then fire away.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,817
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,817 |
On multiple occasions people have complained about comparisons of cartridges using ballistic data, claiming they are boring and/or uninformative. For those complainers, naysayers and whiners, I have a simple question:
Without ballistic information, how do you determine the suitability of a cartridge for your needs?
....................Simple! Prior knowledge, experience and depends on what cartridges one owns....For example. See the four cartridges below that I own? Now do ya think that I would need to consult any ballistic information tables in order to determine what their capabilities are as to satisfying whatever my particular need is?.....NUPE!
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,524
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,524 |
On multiple occasions people have complained about comparisons of cartridges using ballistic data, claiming they are boring and/or uninformative. For those complainers, naysayers and whiners, I have a simple question:
Without ballistic information, how do you determine the suitability of a cartridge for your needs?
No using ballistic table data of any kind, whether from calculators, reloading books or manufacturers.
I go shoot deer, coyotes, groundhogs etc with it. If it works well, I keep it and eventually start loading for it. Lather, rinse, repeat,
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 974
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 974 |
I'd much rather read (and heed) someone's first-hand experience with a particular cartridge or bullet than read about something I can look up on my own, if I'm interested.
This 100%. The ballistic arguments are interesting, but they've all been made before.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
I go shoot deer, coyotes, groundhogs etc with it. If it works well, I keep it and eventually start loading for it. Lather, rinse, repeat,
Your answer begs the question - How did you evaluate the cartridge before you purchased the rifle so chambered? I don't know anyone that lays down cash without doing some analysis beforehand.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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