Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters H&R M4 survival rifle???

Didn't know where to post this but I just found an old H&R M4 22 cal survival rifle like the kind the pilots used to strap to there seats in the war. Does anyone have any info on these or what there worth historically? It's the kind that has the retracting steel stock and I did a search and they said they were made in 22 hornet. This one just says 22 cal on it but the chamber looks to big to be a lr. I guess the chopper pilots in Viet Nam used to carry them also. I would appreciate any help! It also has a Lyman 55H peep sight on it.

Haven't seen one in decades.
Never owned or used one myself.
Can't find my copy of the Blue Book of gun values.
Can't help.
Who here can help?
Pitch in with a good answer, please!

Harrington & Richardson - M4
They are not illegal but they do fall under the NFA regulations. If it was never registered then it would be contraband and you would need to forfit it to the BATF. Thus it is worth nothing as far as money is concerned. If it is registered, then it would have a value somewhere around $1500- $2000+ depending on how bad someone wants it. Hope it is registered as I hate to see history distroyed.

This found on the net:


These are a sort of obscure area. The best info comes from the Gun Parts Corp catalog and some old Army Ordnance pubs. GPC catalog (which includes many parts for these) says: "These rifles were rushed into service during WW2 as part of the survival package for downed pilots. The guns were essentially an H&R .22 rimfire rifle (M265 series) modified to be compact and in the more powerful .22 Hornet cartridge. It used a 14" removable barrel, had a telescoping stock, and weighed in at just 4 lbs. It is interesting to note that rather than develop their own magazine, they merely used a .22 Hornet magazine that Savage/Stevens already had for the M23D (later used on the Savage M322 and 340 rifles)." I have never seen mention of these in any WW2 period ordnance dept material, and Hackley, Woodin & Scranton do not include any mention of .22 Hornet ammo in their exceptionally thorough and well documented History of Modern US Military Small Arms Ammunition. Therefore, these are more likely circa 1950s. ORD 7-8 SNL B-43 , "Organizational, Field and Depot Maintenance Allowances for Rifle, Survival, cal..22, M4 (T38) (Hornet Cartridge)" dated November 1951 does not supercede any previous publications, and inclusion of the "T38" designation implies it was just then being standardized. The M6 survival rifles (over under .22 Hornet/.410) are covered by ORD SNL B-45 dated June 1951, and include a T39 designation, so they may have both been under development about the same time. This may also be about the time that the lightweight M13 revolvers were being developed for the USAF. I think that "survival" guns were a hot topic about that time, where previously aircrews were either unarmed, or issued some sort of sidearm from standard stocks but as more of a combat weapon than intended for survival use. Of course, the M12 and M15 .45 ACP shot cartridges developed during WW2 are exceptions. Have had indications from some visitors that RCAF interceptor pilots also carried survival rifles (connected to ejection seat?) in 1960-70s. I forget if they mentioned that they were the M4 or M6. Both M4 and M6 are scarce on the collector market, as they must be either (a) registered with BATF during 1968 amnesty period, or (b) rebarreled to meet minimum barrel length of 16" for rifles or 18" for shotguns.

Wow, thanks T! My only problem now is that I live in Canada and with all the crap going on with our gun registry there's no way I'm gonna get it registered now that the due date is over, which really sucks cause it's a piece of history. Now I gotta figure out what to do with it. Your piece dimed it in detail. Maybe a museum, or maybe I'll have to get rid of it? I hate to do it, especially if they're so rare. I'll figure out something, thanks for all your help.

The only other options: Both M4 and M6 are scarce on the collector market, as they must be either (a) registered with BATF during 1968 amnesty period, or(b) rebarreled to meet minimum barrel length of 16" for rifles or 18" for shotguns.

You MAY be able to get by with sweating a length of steel tubing to the end of the barrel to extend it to minimum legal length -- long enough to satisfy the legal requirement, large enough inside diameter to avoid interference with bullets exiting the true muzzle. I'd sweat one on -- the solder joint is reversible -- or even try epoxy, which can be removed by freezing or cooking. But you may be forced to sacrifice collector or museum value by rebarreling or by welding an extension onto the issue barrel. Sure wish I knew for sure which choice would "fly!"

To cover my butt in the meantime, I'd promptly remove the issue barrel and keep it separate from the rest of the gun. Then I'd rebarrel it. This should make the gun both legal (new, legal barrel fitted) and collector-valuable (original barrel retained intact).

Here's a link to the Canadian Firearms Manual. It has the information you need. Do a search on "minimum barrel lengths" in the full text window. The laws are somewhat different in Canada.

You have a truly rare piece.

http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/cfm/ENGLISH/SEARCHF.HTM

Hope it helps.
JB

Didn't mean to confuse the issue, I was speaking from the perspective of U. S. law.

The value of the rifle is as a relic, not as a shooter. Rebarreling (and hiding the issue barrel) makes the most
sense. By the way the reason they went to a .22 Hornet was the Geneva Convention requirement for full
jacketed ammo for military. I also recall the Curtis Lemay as involved.
Good luck!

Thanks for all of your help guys. I'm not gonna modify it in any way so I guess I'll be taking her apart and storing it properly.