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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,743
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,743 |
I would appreciate some concise directions on how to properly set up a seating die for a bottleneck rifle cartridge. It seems each brand of dies has their own twist on how to set it up. Should the die touch the shell holder at the top of the stroke? That doesn't exist Cliff.... Each brand is a bit different...My main preference these days ( and it ain't the quickest ) is to neck size with a Lee Collet die.. and then bump the shoulder back with a Redding Body die... OR a F/L Die with the spindle removed, from a die set that is one caliber bigger ( example: using a 260 die for a 243 body die )... I also anneal my brass after each firing any more...got that from Pat/ Scenar Shooter.. and if its good enough for Pat, its perfect for me...I do what I consider the Pro's do.... averaging 40 & 50 reloads out of a piece of brass is not unusual for me...and they are still good for more.. ya just maintain it like you would anything else... give it the attention, it will yield a good service life.. If I use F/L dies to resize, for RCBS, I tighten those down until they contact a lifted ram... then give them an 1/8 turn to camming effect.. as that is what the factory says.. but they recommend a 1/4 turn more instead.. Lee F/L dies, I just tighten them down until they hit the raised ram...that is what their instructions say. I only have a couple of Redding die sets, and don't use them much...just the 4 or 5 body dies I have... I have some Hornady Dies, but to tell the truth, I don't care for their die sets...I do use their neck sizing dies on a few cases or applications... but I consider those specialty dies.. those I tighten down until they contact a lifted ram... after all of that... when setting the die up, I still adjust the die, after trying out the case in the chamber of the rifle it will be fired in.. I look at resizing die, like resizing a foot to fit into a shoe... size 12 feet don't fit well into a size 10 shoe... size 8 feet in a size 10 shoe are sloppy and will cause problems.. not all feet are a perfect size.. nor are any shoes a perfect size...its a little trial and error.. things vary when it comes to size... I test all this out before I start reloading a batch of ammo, by making a dummy round... I usually leave a dummy round in the box of bullets for each caliber that I load a lot of... I keep bullets in after market boxes that will hold from 500 to 1000 bullets...so say a 22 caliber, 55 grain box of bullets, will have a dummy 223 and dummy 22/250 round I keep in the that box for that bullet..makes life easier for me... I handload 200 to 500 bullets a week on average... not just for me.. but for friends etc... like this past week I loaded 500 rounds for a friend over at the college..he supplies the components..I do the loading in return, I get to use the rack over in automotive dept when I need to do repairs on something.. or the students do the work, when they need the exposure...one hand washing the other...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,820
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,820 |
Instructions supplied with die sets more often than not lead to excessive sizing of the brass. Generally their intent is to ensure a case fired in this chamber (however loose) is sized enough to fit that chamber (however tight).
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,980
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,980 |
I would appreciate some concise directions on how to properly set up a seating die for a bottleneck rifle cartridge. It seems each brand of dies has their own twist on how to set it up. Should the die touch the shell holder at the top of the stroke? That doesn't exist Cliff.... Each brand is a bit different...My main preference these days ( and it ain't the quickest ) is to neck size with a Lee Collet die.. and then bump the shoulder back with a Redding Body die... OR a F/L Die with the spindle removed, from a die set that is one caliber bigger ( example: using a 260 die for a 243 body die )... I also anneal my brass after each firing any more...got that from Pat/ Scenar Shooter.. and if its good enough for Pat, its perfect for me...I do what I consider the Pro's do.... averaging 40 & 50 reloads out of a piece of brass is not unusual for me...and they are still good for more.. ya just maintain it like you would anything else... give it the attention, it will yield a good service life.. If I use F/L dies to resize, for RCBS, I tighten those down until they contact a lifted ram... then give them an 1/8 turn to camming effect.. as that is what the factory says.. but they recommend a 1/4 turn more instead.. Lee F/L dies, I just tighten them down until they hit the raised ram...that is what their instructions say. I only have a couple of Redding die sets, and don't use them much...just the 4 or 5 body dies I have... I have some Hornady Dies, but to tell the truth, I don't care for their die sets...I do use their neck sizing dies on a few cases or applications... but I consider those specialty dies.. those I tighten down until they contact a lifted ram... after all of that... when setting the die up, I still adjust the die, after trying out the case in the chamber of the rifle it will be fired in.. I look at resizing die, like resizing a foot to fit into a shoe... size 12 feet don't fit well into a size 10 shoe... size 8 feet in a size 10 shoe are sloppy and will cause problems.. not all feet are a perfect size.. nor are any shoes a perfect size...its a little trial and error.. things vary when it comes to size... I test all this out before I start reloading a batch of ammo, by making a dummy round... I usually leave a dummy round in the box of bullets for each caliber that I load a lot of... I keep bullets in after market boxes that will hold from 500 to 1000 bullets...so say a 22 caliber, 55 grain box of bullets, will have a dummy 223 and dummy 22/250 round I keep in the that box for that bullet..makes life easier for me... I handload 200 to 500 bullets a week on average... not just for me.. but for friends etc... like this past week I loaded 500 rounds for a friend over at the college..he supplies the components..I do the loading in return, I get to use the rack over in automotive dept when I need to do repairs on something.. or the students do the work, when they need the exposure...one hand washing the other... Mmm, maybe you should re read the post you quoted, that isn’t how to set up a seating die
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,743
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,743 |
Instructions supplied with die sets more often than not lead to excessive sizing of the brass. Generally their intent is to ensure a case fired in this chamber (however loose) is sized enough to fit that chamber (however tight). agree.. but I have gotten instructions verbally from one of the technicians by calling the manufacturer... they'll tell ya the instructions say "this".. but they recommend "that way" instead... and they have told me, nothing is set in stone...for the best "fit" you have to cater to the variables each chamber and round presents...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,743
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,743 |
I would appreciate some concise directions on how to properly set up a seating die for a bottleneck rifle cartridge. It seems each brand of dies has their own twist on how to set it up. Should the die touch the shell holder at the top of the stroke? That doesn't exist Cliff.... Each brand is a bit different...My main preference these days ( and it ain't the quickest ) is to neck size with a Lee Collet die.. and then bump the shoulder back with a Redding Body die... OR a F/L Die with the spindle removed, from a die set that is one caliber bigger ( example: using a 260 die for a 243 body die )... I also anneal my brass after each firing any more...got that from Pat/ Scenar Shooter.. and if its good enough for Pat, its perfect for me...I do what I consider the Pro's do.... averaging 40 & 50 reloads out of a piece of brass is not unusual for me...and they are still good for more.. ya just maintain it like you would anything else... give it the attention, it will yield a good service life.. If I use F/L dies to resize, for RCBS, I tighten those down until they contact a lifted ram... then give them an 1/8 turn to camming effect.. as that is what the factory says.. but they recommend a 1/4 turn more instead.. Lee F/L dies, I just tighten them down until they hit the raised ram...that is what their instructions say. I only have a couple of Redding die sets, and don't use them much...just the 4 or 5 body dies I have... I have some Hornady Dies, but to tell the truth, I don't care for their die sets...I do use their neck sizing dies on a few cases or applications... but I consider those specialty dies.. those I tighten down until they contact a lifted ram... after all of that... when setting the die up, I still adjust the die, after trying out the case in the chamber of the rifle it will be fired in.. I look at resizing die, like resizing a foot to fit into a shoe... size 12 feet don't fit well into a size 10 shoe... size 8 feet in a size 10 shoe are sloppy and will cause problems.. not all feet are a perfect size.. nor are any shoes a perfect size...its a little trial and error.. things vary when it comes to size... I test all this out before I start reloading a batch of ammo, by making a dummy round... I usually leave a dummy round in the box of bullets for each caliber that I load a lot of... I keep bullets in after market boxes that will hold from 500 to 1000 bullets...so say a 22 caliber, 55 grain box of bullets, will have a dummy 223 and dummy 22/250 round I keep in the that box for that bullet..makes life easier for me... I handload 200 to 500 bullets a week on average... not just for me.. but for friends etc... like this past week I loaded 500 rounds for a friend over at the college..he supplies the components..I do the loading in return, I get to use the rack over in automotive dept when I need to do repairs on something.. or the students do the work, when they need the exposure...one hand washing the other... Mmm, maybe you should re read the post you quoted, that isn’t how to set up a seating die seating die for a bottleneck rifle cartridge. Well it has been for me, for a decade or a couple of them... and considering the case life I get out of doing that way.. and how little it needs to be resized, because it was set to fit the chamber of the rifle...I'll stick with the advice I've been given from factory techs and some of the folks I look up to on the campfire here...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,980
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,980 |
I would appreciate some concise directions on how to properly set up a seating die for a bottleneck rifle cartridge. It seems each brand of dies has their own twist on how to set it up. Should the die touch the shell holder at the top of the stroke? That doesn't exist Cliff.... Each brand is a bit different...My main preference these days ( and it ain't the quickest ) is to neck size with a Lee Collet die.. and then bump the shoulder back with a Redding Body die... OR a F/L Die with the spindle removed, from a die set that is one caliber bigger ( example: using a 260 die for a 243 body die )... I also anneal my brass after each firing any more...got that from Pat/ Scenar Shooter.. and if its good enough for Pat, its perfect for me...I do what I consider the Pro's do.... averaging 40 & 50 reloads out of a piece of brass is not unusual for me...and they are still good for more.. ya just maintain it like you would anything else... give it the attention, it will yield a good service life.. If I use F/L dies to resize, for RCBS, I tighten those down until they contact a lifted ram... then give them an 1/8 turn to camming effect.. as that is what the factory says.. but they recommend a 1/4 turn more instead.. Lee F/L dies, I just tighten them down until they hit the raised ram...that is what their instructions say. I only have a couple of Redding die sets, and don't use them much...just the 4 or 5 body dies I have... I have some Hornady Dies, but to tell the truth, I don't care for their die sets...I do use their neck sizing dies on a few cases or applications... but I consider those specialty dies.. those I tighten down until they contact a lifted ram... after all of that... when setting the die up, I still adjust the die, after trying out the case in the chamber of the rifle it will be fired in.. I look at resizing die, like resizing a foot to fit into a shoe... size 12 feet don't fit well into a size 10 shoe... size 8 feet in a size 10 shoe are sloppy and will cause problems.. not all feet are a perfect size.. nor are any shoes a perfect size...its a little trial and error.. things vary when it comes to size... I test all this out before I start reloading a batch of ammo, by making a dummy round... I usually leave a dummy round in the box of bullets for each caliber that I load a lot of... I keep bullets in after market boxes that will hold from 500 to 1000 bullets...so say a 22 caliber, 55 grain box of bullets, will have a dummy 223 and dummy 22/250 round I keep in the that box for that bullet..makes life easier for me... I handload 200 to 500 bullets a week on average... not just for me.. but for friends etc... like this past week I loaded 500 rounds for a friend over at the college..he supplies the components..I do the loading in return, I get to use the rack over in automotive dept when I need to do repairs on something.. or the students do the work, when they need the exposure...one hand washing the other... Mmm, maybe you should re read the post you quoted, that isn’t how to set up a seating die seating die for a bottleneck rifle cartridge. Well it has been for me, for a decade or a couple of them... and considering the case life I get out of doing that way.. and how little it needs to be resized, because it was set to fit the chamber of the rifle...I'll stick with the advice I've been given from factory techs and some of the folks I look up to on the campfire here...
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 15,882
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 15,882 |
Thanks to all for your help. It looks like I'm not as far off in my technique as I thought I might be.
There are 2 rules to success:
1. Never tell everything that you know.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,170
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,170 |
I didn't read every response but I chuck my expander ball and stem into my drill press and use emery paper to reduce the size of the ball to increase the neck tension. It may take some turning but it only takes a few thousands off to tighten up the neck.
kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,894
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,894 |
Many small variations can easily add up. In a perfect world (which does not exist) all the stars will be in alignment all the time.
Brass thickness...
Die specs...
Chamber specs...
Life of said chamber (how many rounds fired)…
Headspace ???...
I could go on but the point being the instructions that come with a die set are a good start point but anyone that has handrolled ammo for awhile has more than a few tricks up their sleeve.
Can you safely shoot a bottle neck cartridge that has excessive headspace? Yes only with handloads tailored for that chamber (essentially a wildcat). You CANNOT use factory ammo and you will not follow die set up instructions from the die manufacturer. You will probably be fireforming also.
This is an extreme example meant to show (as some have pointed out) there is no one always correct way to do it …….
In all my years of doing this I have found that there is only one hard and fast rule. Every rifle is a rule unto itself...
Small variations.
One man with courage makes a majority....
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,820
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,820 |
The OP said the die had been used successfully before. Now the neck tension is insufficient. So it seems like for the current lot of brass the neck section of the die is too large. Reducing the diameter of the expander won't help if this is the case.
For example, one of my 308 dies is a Forster that has been honed out to work harmoniously with thicker brass such as Federal or Lapua. Even with no expander at all if I size WW brass in it the neck won't hold a bullet.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,151
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,151 |
Wondered about that...I dropped and broke my micrometer so I can't measure that Cranked the die to size all the way. Still happening. Think it's a bullet issue Too bad you can't afford to get a new micrometer - that would remove all doubt on the bullet diameter. But let's keep talking about proper die setup . . .
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