Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer -- .30-06 and .300 H&H

Bob, if you're not careful, you're going to drive all of the chronic equipment collectors and ballistic theorists into a sure'nough tizzy. Practical truth has a way of doing that.........

AD

Another thing that is often over-looked is that the '06 is the equal of the 300 mags.....just at 75 to 100 yds closer. In hunting scenarios the range to the target is so fluid and relative that one not be handicapped by the old classic. The handicap if there is by and large a mental one.

Gdv

I had a .300 H&H built about 4-5 years ago on a M70 Classic action. Until last year I hunted with it exclusively. The only reason I didn't use it last year was because I've got a few rifles I've never hunted with and felt I needed to justify owning them . Next year I'll probably have the H&H out again. It's a little heavy for white tails, but they don't complain too much about it.

It's a fantastic round with a lot going for it. Mine loves H4350 powder and about any weight bullet.

Terry

Goodnews: Well, sure! At some tome in it's ballistic life a 300 mag becomes a 30/06>becomes a 308>becomes a 30-30, etc.

Except for one tiny wrinkle that we don't talk about too much and that is rotational velocity. From equal 10" twist barrels, the bullet from a 300 weatherby is still turning out higher revs at a given velocity level than the same one fired from a 30/06. Does it matter?

Allen: I'll stop doing that........

Yea, and we can only feel sorry for those poor souls who unknowingly trudged through life while filling box cars with game with only the pipsqueak 30-30 or the 30-40 Krag (not to mention others). It's a blessing they didn't know how bad they had it .

About the 300 Wby's rotational velocity: there's a reason to go with a 300 mag if I've ever heard one.

George

at the ranges where most of us do our hunting, rotational velocities have no bearing on bullet performance...
when the shooting gets long, if all else is equal, the faster bullet retains its stability farther...

by 800 or so the m118 lake city stuff is panting hard and beginning to yaw fired from the xm21 with a 1-12 barrel...
any of the fast .30s with a 1-10 twist extends the range of stability by a couple of hundred yds easily...
difference between the 30-06 and the h&h, or other fast .30s, is not as dramatic but, still, significant on a make or break shot...

beyond the arena of the long shot, the fast .30s offer the ability to project heavier bullets at velocities which make them ballistically viable for game shooting within the ranges that most of us hunt... an advantage that is somewhat negated today by the use of better bullets..... john w

The other thing rotational velocity does ( I think), is facilitate expansion of the bullet.Rotational velocity does not decrease with distance, one of the reasons 300 mags are still tough on fragile bullets at long range. And why "reduced velocity " tests of bullet expansio are not always valid.

One of the reasons I "like" the 7 rem mag, 9" twist barrel, is that you can use a tough bullet and still get it to expand properly at long range, at least MY definition of "long".

If a rifle is in a 1 in 10 twist the bullet is only going to turn one revalution for evry 19 inches of travel and it's rpm's are relavent to velocity...........

maybe so, bob...

but you're bringing up stuff that's beyond my experience...
the longest KD (known distance) i have ever fired a bullet on game was a measured 440 yds... from 1 quarter section fence, to the next.... john w

i have had shots called in by a spotter on prairie dogs at somewhat greater, but indeterminate, distance...
call it an ideosyncracy, if you will, but i have no interest in using a LRF to hunt... not before the shot... not after.....

John: To me ,thats "long". I can shoot to 600 here on a range
, but on game the longest I ever shot was about 500.

To me, long is any distance that I can't use a "dead on" hold.

Good definition.

That is the same rule I apply to myself. If it requires holdover, it is a long shot. Anything else is rifle control.

AGW

agreed.... i think, though, from a hunters standpoint, that the 30-06 will, indeed, hang with the holland..... john w

I started out with the 30-06 35 years ago, and there's no question in my mind that the 300 magnums hit the same species harder and kill better at all ranges.

The common misconception is that the 300s only gain you a few yards in terms of flatter trajectory over the 30-06, but that's just part of the story -- they also deliver more energy at all ranges as well, and you can look those numbers up for yourself.

Modern revisionist ballistic interpretation seems to lean with the concept that energy has very little to do with killing power, which is totally false. That froth gets spewed out when a specific writer will try to sell a new, low-voltage cartridge, and in order to do that, he has to portray it as "just as effective" as an established cartridge of the same caliber that's much more powerful..... But, anyhow if that concept were true, then a 30-30 Winchester would be just as potent as the 30-06, and the obsolete 375 Winchester lever round would be just as versatile and effective as the 375 H&H...............or the 378 Weatherby, for that matter!

AD

Occasionally we see the photograph of a bullet in flight, a shadow gram I believe it is called, don't know how they do it but you see them in reloading manuals etc.
The faster the bullet is traveling the bigger the wake and air turbelence built up behind it. To my way of thinking this turbulent air follows the bullet through the animal and is part of the reason the hole is so much bigger than the bullet.

I have been enjoying this thread. So much so I thought I would throw my own opinion in. A friend used to work at the local Scheels store and kept me broke with all the calls when a certain gun came in. One just happened to be a pre-64 Win. in .300 H&H. The first loads I got were bought at a gun show. It was easy to shoot .5" groups with those 180g Hornady's. I still didn't use it much for hunting due to having a go to gun in 30-06. Well, I sold the '06 so I would have to use the .300. After using it for some time it is my go to gun. My loads only make 2950fps from the 26" barrel, but it is very accurate. It doesn't weight 9 lbs on the bathroom scale with scope and sling. I don't think it kicks much even with the steel butt-plate. My Pre64 Featherweight 30-06 with steel butt-plate is worse. I find it very easy to load for and bought a bunch of brass when it was available. If I ever have to start selling my guns to make ends meet it will be one of the last to go.

Well , if I am following much of the logic presented on this thread correctly , the extra 200 fps the 300 H&H offers over the 30/06 provides a good increase in flatness and killing power , while the extra 200 fps the 300 Weatherby offers overs the H&H is all for nothing......

Somehow , I don't quite swallow that and for my money I would take the faster cartridge.....of course you do reach the limit of recoil and blast the individual can stand or wants to put up with...

No .300 magnum drops deer sized game any faster than a .30/06 over normal hunting ranges using the same bullets. You get a little flatter trajectory over the longer shots, but the rest is theory and justification for purchase.

Look at it this way:

What animals can you kill with a .300 magnum that you cannot kill with identical shot placement and bullet using a .30/06?

Let the whopper's begin.

AGW

Wouldnt it stand to reason that higher velocity correlates with more tissue destruction and thus faster death? I know for a fact that a wound from a 06 is a lot less tramatic than one from a 300 win mag.

speed kills, allen... i'll grant you that...
the partition, tsx, a-frame... none are much good at baseball pitching velocities...
if the holland does it for you, or whatever cartridge, so be it... regards..... john w