Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Berger Bullets?

If I was hunting eastern whitetail, I think I would stick to nosler bt, corelokts, or something similar, and call it good. Not really where Bergers are going to shine, although they would work.

I’ve never tried them and from what I’ve read I likely never will, at least not on deer sized game and larger. There’s simply far too many GREAT bullets out there to choose from that I have no reason to use a marginal bullet. I like to find a bullet that is designed for what I plan to hunt with that particular rifle and load. I then shoot it for accuracy on paper and do simpleton wet phone book tests at 50 and 100 yards. I then use that load on big game and note it’s performance. I have yet to find a premium hunting bullet that failed that final and ultimate test. If I’ve done my due diligence and limit my expectations of a bullets performance to the parameters it was designed for I’m always satisfied with my choice. I shoot almost exclusively TSX/TTSX and I’ve NEVER had to track an animal. I’ve dropped deer at 20 feet and elk at 537 yards and the bullets I used worked perfectly, just AS DESIGNED! For coyotes and small game I use whatever is accurate and don’t sweat the details. I spend a lot of time up north and in areas that have big predators so my bullet choice takes that variable into account.....namely, ACCURATE.....since if needed during a charge I’m more worried about placement than penetration because whatever bullet I’ve chosen to hunt big game with I already know that it’s up to the task. My primary hunting rifles and my son’s hunting rifle is .308 shooting usually using 150 TTSX and sometimes the 168 TSX. My .338 I use the old 225gr Trophy Bonded Bearclaw but that rifle likes everything except the Partition. It loved the old X bullet and it loves the new TSX/TTSX’s as well. Our daughter shoots a .243 using the 80gr TTSX

I’ll be sending a pre-64 (1954 iirc) in 30-06 to JES for a rebore to 35 Whelen and cut to 20” so I’ll be looking for a load that is stoutly constructed and packs a punch. I want a lighter weight easy to carry in thick brush and quick to shoulder rifle. Something durable that will be going in and out of boats and exposed to saltwater. I’l probably start (and end) with the 225 TSX. 😁

I’m sure Bergers are great on paper and coyotes but choosing a bullet to do something it wasn’t necessarily designed for is irresponsible.imho. We owe it to the game we hunt to do our best to ensure a quick, clean kill. Even bullets used specifically for the game that they’re intended for can suffer a “failure” since the variables are endless and parameters are exceeded. All of my hunting rifles shoot under 1” at a hundred yards shooting the bullets that they’ll be hunting with, almost exclusively using factory ammunition. With that accuracy available using properly constructed bullets like the TTSX, TSX, Partition, TBBC, A-Frame....etc, etc.....even the old Corelokt is better than using a “Match” bullet.....no matter how much of a bugholer it is.imho

Why be more concerned with what a bullet was originally designed to do than what it actually does ?

You're talking to the crowd John that still judges Nosler BTs from their experience on a coyote in 1982, meaning limited to no use let alone in the proper application......grin...

Kinda like Scenars which dig deep, but look like a target bullet so by definition they must suck and blow up too...

Greg.

All good points!

Now, that's a quotable...

DF

In thinking about this, how many bullets have you guys seen that don't preform as they were designed?

I shot it just back of the shoulder joint, it was going fast and I was close. I chose to use it because that is what the gun shot the best, which was very good. I read some reports that it did well with game, so I tried it. Maybe it was the perfect( and by that I mean perfectly bad) way to show where it’s limitations. Like I said where I hunt deer in the east, extreme accuracy just isn’t necessary and I’ve used other bullets under similar conditions that performed much better as far as loss of meat.

Side note my favorite bullets to use in anything besides my 358 win and 45-70 are Accubonds. Shoot well in my guns and hold together well.

I’ve shot north of a 100 white tails with many different bullets factory loaded and hand loads. Many different chamberings. In that situation it performed as I stated, since that scenario isn’t all that uncommon in my area of the country while hunting deer, especially for me as I prefer to still hunt, I won’t be using them again. They may work well in other applications, but I feel no need to experiment further with them. That’s the crowd I’m in I guess.

MM

I wasn't thinking in that direction. The example I had in mind was the 168 VLD, designed as a target bullet, which doesn't affect the fact that it has been a fine deer bullet for 308 Winchester.

Maybe Nosler didn't think the original Ballistic Tips would expand so easily.

Then I guess you're one of those guys who (for whatever reason) buy into the Campfire mantra of advice of "use whatever bullet shoots best." Which is irrelevant for 99% of big game hunting.

Due to another of these threads, the other day I added up the brands and types of bullets I've personally used on "big game" in various places in North America and around the world. Turned out there were 15 brands, and 40+ types among those brands. Have also been standing next to hunting partners who used a few other brands/types.(Oh, and have also used the .358 Winchester and .45-70 enough with various bullets to know how they work, along with AccuBonds in calibers from 6.5mm to .375, at various velocities.)

ALL of those bullets worked well, as long as the game and range was within their design limitations. Some did not work so well, when used outside their limitations.

However, how "well" they worked also depended on how the hunter felt about ideal cartrdge/bullet performance. Some believe that a certain cartridge or bullet will always "DRT" big game. Have yet to encounter either--unless the bullet broke both "front" shoulders, or hit the central nervous system.

Have also run into a lot of hunters who believe a bullet's retained weight, or whether it exits, or shoots "half inch groups all day long--if I do my part" is the ONLY solution. Have seen plenty of exceptions to those as well.

That said, have yet to see a Berger hunting bullet destroy a lot of meat UNLESS it was put into, or very close to, the shoulder of a big game animal. And have shot (and seen shot) a bunch of big game at under 100 yards with Bergers. This does NOT mean a lot meat damage it isn't possible, of course, but it also doesn't mean that a grumpy hunter who used a great long-range bullet on one animal at 60 yards means much. Sorry.

2 of the best elk killers I know highly recommend 168g berger vlds.

Based on the internet outrage, maybe I should give them a go. That damn contrarian in me.

You'll never do it. You don't have the guts!

Not sure where you’re going with this. I clearly stated it was my experience and under those conditions In which I used it, it performed thus. I was not making broad sweeping statements about whether the bullet is good or bad. My experience does mean a lot to me because I’ve used many other bullets under similar situations with similar shot placement and had much better results. Good for you that it works, I mean that by the way not in a snide way, I just don’t feel the need to try it again as I’ve had success with other bullets. Nothing grumpy about it.
What does bother me is another posters response implying ignorance/stupidity because of relating my actual experience, limited as it was.

MM

JG - I'm of the opinion that chit happens. One experience doesn't sway me including those who have had bad Berger luck used as intended, like my man TInman....

Honestly, I've killed stuff with TSX, TTSX, and even Accubonds. The Barnes is always a poor blood trail if any at all, but they exit, and a giant chase with perfect shots. No more. Others swear by them.

I've shot 3 mule deer with 7mm 140 Accubonds and haven't had an exit with any. It's weird. And wound channels poor. Others swear by them.

I'm not discounting other folks experience who have BTDT.

Chit happens, we all make equipment calls....

What is silly are lots of folks who look at a bullet, or optic, or pant and think it looks like a target bullet and make decisions, or read an article in Field and Stream from a test into newspaper and get on here and say silly stupid stuff that based on the design I'd never use that silly thing. They've never even killed anything with the bullet on question. Some are on this very thread. I just laugh at that stuff....

The point is chit happens and sample size of everything matters. I've settled on VLDs heavy for caliber with MVs no more than 2900....

Fly great, great in wind, mostly exit, and 90 percent of my kills are dead right there up to 850 yards. Many, many hunters who I know and respect who get chit done have exclusively gone to VLDs or Scenars. But it's a target bullet.....grin ..

But chit happens.

mitchellmountain,

First post: "My experience, limited but it confirmed my fears of using it to hunt. Especially where I hunt in the East for white tails .5 moa isn’t really advantageous to just plain old sub moa."

Second Post: " I was not making broad sweeping statements about whether the bullet is good or bad."

Which is exactly why I asked why the hell you used it in the first place, especially if you had "fears of using it in the first place."

Ha! I was just discussing how overrated barnes' are with a guy at work today.
I've slowly become a fan of the .224" 62 grain TSX after a rocky start, but that's about it.

Why did you use any bullet other than the one you first used to kill a deer?

I'm quickly becoming a fan of the 62gr TTSX. It's worked perfectly for the kids, and they shoot it better than bigger guns. I think it's an elk bullet. I've not tried it on elk, but that's just because the elk didn't cooperate. Of course, I feel the same about the 62/64gr Fusion, both pushed to 3100-3150 in a 223.

I have never taken anything with a Berger. I have shot a bunch of them into paper, but never have I personally put one into an animal. My brother and I are dipping our toes in it a little this year with the 215 Berger in his 300 Win Mag and I with a 150 Berger in a 270 Winchester. We're hoping with the starting speeds of right around 2900 they act right, cause they are both accurate as heck out of our rifles. Used the 220 Scenars out of a RUM last year and got to see them smack down a couple of deer, that opened my eyes a little bit.

Meat damage isn't a huge thing for us, we don't target front legs mostly and if we do hit one, I haven't seen any bullet that'll let you eat up to the bullet hole, well, maybe the 405's out of a 45-70.