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i was at a dealer show a year and half ago i told Browning Rep why not start chambering 6.5 Creedmoor and the Rep said that is a very good ideal . Browning is now chambering the 6.5 Creedmoor and i was able to get 2 ordered BROWNING BLR S.S. 6.5 Creedmoors both are already sold and won`t even be here tell next week,kinda wonder if i should get a couple of more ?
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Campfire 'Bwana
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A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Because you're not very bright. Tell me ONE thing wrong with a 6.5mm at modest velocities for killing stuff. A cartridge that has a huge array of factory ammo, plenty of good brass choices etc? What's wrong with that?
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i feel Browning did their homework on what people want in a lever.these BLR levers are a very accurate rifle and chambering a 6.5 Creedmoor was a dang good ideal Browning will make money on, Ruger had no trouble selling all the 6.5 Creedmoors in #1 and now Ruger is making their Precision AR - BOLT 6.5 Creedmoors and that rifle is selling well too. so i am glad to see a great lever in a 6.5 Creedmoor too and i am still wondering if i should inventory a couple of more ?
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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I am a multiple BLR owner, not a 6.5 owner but a good move for Browning
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I’ve been contemplating getting a Takedown BLR and putting a custom barrel / Chambering on it ... well I was thinking to a 260.... It could be done pretty easily, the Barrel extension is the same thing as AR15 ... I guess it depends if Browning glues the crap out of them like they do the Bolts.
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I am with jorgeI, I would be surprised if Browning went to the expense of producing the 6.5 in a lever. I don't see it have much wide spread appeal. Several bolt guns chambered for it but a lever? With a 20" barrel? Time will tell, but I suspect that the 6.5 Creedmore will go the way of so many others. 6.5 Rem mag, 6.5 Swede,
Last edited by WStrayer; 07/23/20.
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RemModel8, No need to make insulting remarks because the guy disagrees with you...
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That’s good news.
Browning had some chambering’s over the years that I regret not snagging. 257 Roberts and the 284. One cartridge that I thought they would of chambered was the 35 Whelen.
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RemModel8, No need to make insulting remarks because the guy disagrees with you... He's a pompous ass. I suggest you worry about you princess.
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I am with jorgeI, I would be surprised if Browning went to the expense of producing the 6.5 in a lever. I don't see it have much wide spread appeal. Several bolt guns chambered for it but a lever? With a 20" barrel? Time will tell, but I suspect that the 6.5 Creedmore will go the way of so many others. 6.5 Rem mag, 6.5 Swede, Are you the smart one on your block? I'll make you a bet it doesn't disappear, certainly not before your next Flomax.
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6.5 CREEDMOOR its here to stay in the future, even the military is starting to decide to make it official military cartridge. this 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge does shoot & group well and has less recoil too. yes a longer barrel might be better ? these BLR lever rifle with a clip/magazine so ammo /bullet end does not get ruined for accuracy another great ideal . i will make a bet no commercial repeating lever rifle made today will out shoot these BLR`S in a 6.5 Creedmoor except another maybe BLR or maybe a trusty ole Savage 99. i also wish Browning made a BLR in a 338 Win. mag in a BLR or even a 35 Whelen ? when people say its just a cartridge fad and will fade away, i don`t think so the problem in the past was good bullets now every bullet company is making many different weight bullets for a 6.5 and the Creedmoor is on top of the heap too for a long long time.at my shop its the easiest rifle cartridge to sell i wish i could get more AR-10`S in this 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge too for a reasonable price yet.
these are the BLR`S i own all S.S. 308 Win. it shoots 1/2-3/4 all day long 30-06 takedown honest inch maybe less 300 Win. mag. 1 inch but the recoil is a little nasty 7 Rem. mag has not been shot 7mm-08 has not been shot 6.5 Creedmoor has been shipped but not here yet
still looking for a nice used 257 Roberts in a BLR ?
Last edited by pete53; 07/23/20.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Henry is also listing The Long Ranger as available in 6.5 Creedmoor.
I'm curious what the number of BLRs annually sold has been over the years. They've listed a wide range of chamberings for the BLR when all other rifles in its class have long since been discontinued. Can't think of any other manufacturer that has supported the .358 Win as long as they have.
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Henry is also listing The Long Ranger as available in 6.5 Creedmoor.
I'm curious what the number of BLRs annually sold has been over the years. They've listed a wide range of chamberings for the BLR when all other rifles in its class have long since been discontinued. Can't think of any other manufacturer that has supported the .358 Win as long as they have.
the problem is Browning they only make a limited amount of each different cartridge every year ,i was very surprised Browning made some 6.5 Creedmoor BLR`s but glad too . yes i see Henry makes a lever rifle but Henry`s do cost more and i feel the Browning is nicer looking too,but i might buy a Henry if they built a 257 Roberts ?
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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I guess it really depends on what you want to hunt. The 6.5 CM is very popular, but offers nothing over the 7-08 Rem and does not have the versatility of the 308 Win when it comes to frontal area and bullet weight. That’s not to say you can’t get the job done with a 6.5 CM in a BLR, but again the 308 Win in that platform offers a wide variety of bullet choices from 110 gr - 200 gr in a magazine fed lever gun.
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I like any cartridge that increases firearm sales, even if I have no personal interest in said cartridge.
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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I like any cartridge that increases firearm sales, even if I have no personal interest in said cartridge. i like this answer ! me too
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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While I'm not interested in a BLR, I don't see why they shouldn't chamber the 6.5 Creedmoor. I don't get why people still think it's not here to stay. It's a "Walmart" cartridge now. It's as popular as the 223, 243, 308, 30-06, 270, 7mm mag, and 300 mag. I would expect it to be chambered in any model that is chambered in the others.
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just got in from speed-dee 2 - 6.5 Creedmoor S.S. Browning BLR rifles both look excellent !
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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I think from a business stand point, Browning made a good move. The 6.5 Creedmore is very popular. To me, it doesn't offer anything that a 7mm-08 and 308 can't do, although at slightly less recoil. The 260 Rem has been around for a while, and gives identical ballistics, so the ballistic idea is nothing new. 120gr 6.5s at 3000fps or 140gr. at 2700. Just marketing. The lever action is a hunting rifle, always has been. Nobody is going to take one to the national matches and try to win with it, so the application of a target round just isn't there in a BLR. For a hunting round, to me, better choices exist for the BLR. Just my thought, to each his own.
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I like any cartridge that increases firearm sales, even if I have no personal interest in said cartridge. I agree, great perspective AussieGunWriter!
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for me i still wish Browning chambered a 338 Win.Mag. S.S. in a BLR with a 22 inch barrel that would a great bear rifle and ammo would be easy to find also.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Had 5-6 in the past, the Steel 7mm-08 was a favorite, but with Henry making an American built option I have no need for one.
"Don't act like you're not impressed!" (Ron Burgandy) NRA 4-Life Americans 4 American Workers .com " I Buy American "
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To each his own, but to me the 7mm-08 is the perfect round for the BLR. 308 is a great one, too, but the 7mm would take it a bit farther.
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I don't see the 6.5 Creedmoor offering on Browning's website. ??
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And why do you suppose Browning quit making the takedown in the pistol grip version?
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I don't see the 6.5 Creedmoor offering on Browning's website. ?? i just put a scoped my 6.5 Creedmoor BLR S.S. and sold the other one also so yep they made some and these 6.5 Creedmoor BLR`,s are nice !
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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I don't see the 6.5 Creedmoor offering on Browning's website. ?? i just put a scoped my 6.5 Creedmoor BLR S.S. and sold the other one also so yep they made some and these 6.5 Creedmoor BLR`,s are nice ! Any pictures of your new rifle? I’m not a Browning BLR guy but I always thought they filled a small niche. For a saddle gun that was fairly trim, chambered in popular cartridges that could reach out there and was meant to be scoped I think the BLR fits the ticket. Of course us gun guys don’t need logic or reason as an excuse to add to our collection so “because I wanted it” is as good of a reason as any to buy another gun. 👍 When I had my shop (FFL) anything that I pre-sold to more than 1 person I ordered more for stock. Limited offerings and chamberings was a no brainer......if I could pre-sell a couple or more there was no question that once they were on the rack they got a lot of looks and usually didn’t last long. With the advent of internet gunbroker type sites there was just no downside to buying extras for stock.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
--------------------------------------------------------- ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Once had a .223 BLR, then the model 81. Went down the road. Don't want another. It shot pretty well, but the trigger is terrible. And, I will take up for Jorge... Even though I do have a few M-700's, I have one Wby MkV. But, it wears a 7RM Brux barrel in a McWoody Wby Express stock... Sorta Wby, but maybe not so much... DF
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I Wonder why the 7 x 57 or 8 x 57 were not introduced?
Last edited by Angus1895; 08/26/20.
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
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Once had a .223 BLR, then the model 81. Went down the road. Don't want another. It shot pretty well, but the trigger is terrible. And, I will take up for Jorge... Even though I do have a few M-700's, I have one Wby MkV. But, it wears a 7RM Brux barrel in a McWoody Wby Express stock... Sorta Wby, but maybe not so much... DF Yeah, Browning should put their time into a half way decent trigger pull rather than worrying about what new cartridge to chamber. An exterior finish on wood and metal that didn't flash like a neon sign might be nice too. Course Browning puts that glossy finish on the stock to try to cover for the fact that they use lumber grade wood. Works on lots of people who equate shine with quality
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I wouldn't have thought anybody would be Jonesing for a lever gun in 6.5 Creed but apparently it fills a niche. When I think of the 6.5 Creed I think long range bolt gun. OTOH, I wouldnt have thought to build a lever gun in a belted magnum cartridge either but it seems Browning sold a bunch of them. It just seems like 2 different markets, crammed into one package. Different strokes for different folks. Edit: I agree on the awful trigger. I have a BLR 81 Lightweight in 308 and the trigger pull is 6 lbs.
Last edited by River_Ridge; 08/27/20.
Wag more, bark less.
The freedoms we surrender today will be the freedoms our grandchildren will never know existed.
The men who wrote the Second Amendment didn't just finish a hunting trip, they just finished liberating a nation.
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I saw a BLR in 222 REM for sale a few years ago, it sat for awhile before it sold.
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The takedowns are kinda interesting, not that I do any traveling. Reports of the crappy triggers are discouraging. Finding one to actually try is pretty iffy around here.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Just saw a blued BLR in 6.5 C $865, that about right ? How much on the stainless ones? MB
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
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Where do I find one of these?
I've been asking Browning at various times for 5+ years to make a pistol grip takedown BLR in 6.5 Creedmoor!
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I like any cartridge that increases firearm sales, even if I have no personal interest in said cartridge. I'm in this camp. If Browning is making them and they're selling, then it's good for Browning and the shooting sports.
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Well I am not the arguing type of hunter. My thought is that this 6.5 Creedmoor has become a favorite for many hunters and perhaps I need to try it as well. Browning's BLR rifle seems ideal for me and my styles of hunting.
Sherwood
FIRE UP THE GRILL - is NOT catch and release!
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Once had a .223 BLR, then the model 81. Went down the road. Don't want another. It shot pretty well, but the trigger is terrible. And, I will take up for Jorge... Even though I do have a few M-700's, I have one Wby MkV. But, it wears a 7RM Brux barrel in a McWoody Wby Express stock... Sorta Wby, but maybe not so much... DF Yeah, Browning should put their time into a half way decent trigger pull rather than worrying about what new cartridge to chamber. An exterior finish on wood and metal that didn't flash like a neon sign might be nice too. Course Browning puts that glossy finish on the stock to try to cover for the fact that they use lumber grade wood. Works on lots of people who equate shine with quality your not exactly right about the wood type my new 6.5 Creedmoor has great looking wood ,i just wish it was satin finished and i might change that to satin.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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I want a stainless takedown 35 Whelan. I'm getting rid of a bunch of stuff I don't use and was thinking of a BLR. Im wondering if it could be recorded to 35 Whelan from a 30-06?
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Once had a .223 BLR, then the model 81. Went down the road. Don't want another. It shot pretty well, but the trigger is terrible. And, I will take up for Jorge... Even though I do have a few M-700's, I have one Wby MkV. But, it wears a 7RM Brux barrel in a McWoody Wby Express stock... Sorta Wby, but maybe not so much... DF Yeah, Browning should put their time into a half way decent trigger pull rather than worrying about what new cartridge to chamber. An exterior finish on wood and metal that didn't flash like a neon sign might be nice too. Course Browning puts that glossy finish on the stock to try to cover for the fact that they use lumber grade wood. Works on lots of people who equate shine with quality your not exactly right about the wood type my new 6.5 Creedmoor has great looking wood ,i just wish it was satin finished and i might change that to satin. It's rare to get good wood on them. Most are lumber grade wood.
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believe it or not one of prettiest shotgun stock`s and forearm i have ever seen came from a old wood pallet and its on my Remington 870 TB made and finished by Jonny Bell . grading wood is an art ,i don`t like a shiny finish as much as a satin finish but some gun people do. i like BLR`S they are a accurate ,nice handling lever and you can buy them in much better powerful cartridges ,i just wish they made them in a 338 Win.mag.that would be an excellent bear rifle.
Last edited by pete53; 09/08/20.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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I've never seen a pallet made out of walnut in my life. Never saw one with any lumber in it big enough to make a stock out of either. Browning uses some of the plainest, most figure free walnut in their standard grade stocks of any manufaturer out there. Go on gunbroker and try to find a BPS, BL-22, BLR, grade I SA-22 or X-Bolt hunter with some nice figure and contrasting grain in it. You'll look at a couple truckloads with stud grade lumber for every one you luck onto with a decent piece of walnut. Their hand cut checkering looks like it was done by a hyperactive 5 year old on a sugar high with the corner of a brick too. Plenty of flat topped diamonds, lines that aren't cut all the way to the border and others cut into the border. They'd be a lot better off going exclusively to machine/lazer cut checkering instead of the sloppily executed hand cut.
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I've never seen a pallet made out of walnut in my life. Never saw one with any lumber in it big enough to make a stock out of either. Browning uses some of the plainest, most figure free walnut in their standard grade stocks of any manufaturer out there. Go on gunbroker and try to find a BPS, BL-22, BLR, grade I SA-22 or X-Bolt hunter with some nice figure and contrasting grain in it. You'll look at a couple truckloads with stud grade lumber for every one you luck onto with a decent piece of walnut. Their hand cut checkering looks like it was done by a hyperactive 5 year old on a sugar high with the corner of a brick too. Plenty of flat topped diamonds, lines that aren't cut all the way to the border and others cut into the border. They'd be a lot better off going exclusively to machine/lazer cut checkering instead of the sloppily executed hand cut. maybe you don`t know the difference in wood types ? not all stocks are Walnut i have seen some very nice maple used ,rosewood and some others and yes walnut is an excellent wood used on many stocks.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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I've never seen a pallet made out of walnut in my life. Never saw one with any lumber in it big enough to make a stock out of either. Browning uses some of the plainest, most figure free walnut in their standard grade stocks of any manufaturer out there. Go on gunbroker and try to find a BPS, BL-22, BLR, grade I SA-22 or X-Bolt hunter with some nice figure and contrasting grain in it. You'll look at a couple truckloads with stud grade lumber for every one you luck onto with a decent piece of walnut. Their hand cut checkering looks like it was done by a hyperactive 5 year old on a sugar high with the corner of a brick too. Plenty of flat topped diamonds, lines that aren't cut all the way to the border and others cut into the border. They'd be a lot better off going exclusively to machine/lazer cut checkering instead of the sloppily executed hand cut. maybe you don`t know the difference in wood types ? not all stocks are Walnut i have seen some very nice maple used ,rosewood and some others and yes walnut is an excellent wood used on many stocks. Yeah, I know walnut and cherry and maple and birch and beech and the list goes on. I used to build custom rifles and do custom stock work, including shaping, inletting, checkering, relief carving and finishing. Browning's standard grade wood and hand cut checkering sucks. But they put a nice shiny finish on it.
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maybe you feel your right about the wood Browning uses ? and maybe to some degree you are even right ? but Browning guns always seem to have high resale ,Browning always has good sales every year,it can be hard to get enough Brownings in inventory to sell so i think they are doing something right. myself i like Browning BLR rifles they are very accurate .work well and have a clip/magazine instead of running ammo in a tube on the rifle and ruining the front of the bullets.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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The best BLR is a pistol grip takedown in 358 Win,I with a Neil Jones trigger job. Oh yeah I got one of those. Great deer and hog rifles.
Life is too short to hunt with ugly guns.
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The best BLR is a pistol grip takedown in 358 Win,I with a Neil Jones trigger job. Oh yeah I got one of those. Great deer and hog rifles. i got a takedown BLR pistol grip laminated kinda blueish color,S.S. 30-06 and this rifle shoots well too.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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The best BLR is a pistol grip takedown in 358 Win,I with a Neil Jones trigger job. Oh yeah I got one of those. Great deer and hog rifles. That sounds like a great rifle. I've been kinda' keeping an eyeball open for a BLR in .358 myself.
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I had a 223 BLR and it would shoot right along with a good bolt action.at 100yds. Nice wood it was perfect if maybe a bit to dark And the metal and bluing were perfect. Slick little rifle. Traded it in and regret it, If I bought another one it would be a 7mm08.
I would have got him too but a Dad Blam snow flake hit me in da eye....
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Posts: 4,224
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,224 |
I have a 358 Winchester that would make a great bearstopper. I don't know how it is an IDEAL. But perhaps a good idea. RZ.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill.
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Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 1,512
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 1,512 |
I like guns | optics | fishing
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,407
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,407 |
Any of the Newton cartridges
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,185
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,185 |
Like everything else these days, the prices are steep: BLR stainless 6.5.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,607
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,607 |
Because you're not very bright. Tell me ONE thing wrong with a 6.5mm at modest velocities for killing stuff. A cartridge that has a huge array of factory ammo, plenty of good brass choices etc? What's wrong with that? Were you the first kid on the block with a yo-yo too or did someone steal your lunch money on the way to the toy store? There is nothing WRONG with a 6.5, a cartridge primarily designed to satiate the needs of longer range shooters, so why put it in a rifle not really designed for that? Now go plug in that data into your pointy head (also called an OPINION that like buttholes, they all stink, mine just happens to smell better than yours) and see maybe if my "WHY" makes sense, but I suspect that will be a challenge for you.. Never mind, I see Scott the neutered, aka Steelhead is back at it again under yet another sockpuppet... i guess the yo-yo was beyond your financial reach given your school bus driver salary....
Last edited by jorgeI; 01/11/21.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,407
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,407 |
I have owned only one BLR, it was a 358. I won't own another. There are so many better rifles out there.
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 207
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 207 |
I have a steel frame BLR81 in 358win and it would be one of my last rifles to go if I had to dispose of some. It is a deer killer for sure. Its favorite load will shoot well under an inch all day and has shot some into much smaller using Hornady 200gr RN. Shoots 225gr Noslers 1-1/4" consistently and does the same with 220gr Speer flat points. I bought the gun used but in excellent shape. I took some 00 steel wool to the stocks and turned them from high gloss to a satin finish in under an hour. I have a Leupold VariX III 2.5-8x in Talley mounts for a wonderful handling rifle that could take all that he lower48 has to offer and pressed into it could take all that North America has to offer. Not ideal for everything but could work in a pinch. 30yrs ago I had a steel framed 257Roberts. I sure wish I had her back now...
Goat
"I know you believe that you understand what you think that I said... But I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." ( A quote of my Father)
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,407
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,407 |
I'd like to see the 33 and 35 Winchesters
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,283
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,283 |
I'd like to see the 33 and 35 Winchesters i have always wanted Browning to build a BLR s.s. laminated stock,338 Win. mag .
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,961
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,961 |
I need to aquire a BLR in 358 win and 30-06 sometime.
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Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 341
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 341 |
One of the places I deer hunt typically involves a half hour slow walk through heavy woods after which I end up at the edge of an open field where >200 yard shots are possible. The BLR is my weapon of choice here, really handy in close cover yet I have the confidence for longer shots. Mine is a Belgian made .308. It shoots sub MOA with handloads. No safety other than the old school half cock. It's a heavy gun, but it carries well. I wish I could get lightweight rings for it, the Leupold DD set I have is very heavy, that and the lack of extra magazines are the big downsides for me.
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,283
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,283 |
One of the places I deer hunt typically involves a half hour slow walk through heavy woods after which I end up at the edge of an open field where >200 yard shots are possible. The BLR is my weapon of choice here, really handy in close cover yet I have the confidence for longer shots. Mine is a Belgian made .308. It shoots sub MOA with handloads. No safety other than the old school half cock. It's a heavy gun, but it carries well. I wish I could get lightweight rings for it, the Leupold DD set I have is very heavy, that and the lack of extra magazines are the big downsides for me. my 6.5 Creedmoor S.S. shoots accurate is not that heavy and 200 yards with this 6.5 Creedmoor BLR will work just fine and i see no reason to have an extra clip ? i hunt mostly with a Ruger #1 single shot and never carry much ammo with, my 1`st shot is the most important shot for me on a nice buck always and that`s out a lot farther than 200 yards .
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,233
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,233 |
Shyt, my Marlin .30-30 consistently shoots sub MOA and I've killed several deer beyond 200 yards with it. No fuss no muss. One shot each.
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,283
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,283 |
Shyt, my Marlin .30-30 consistently shoots sub MOA and I've killed several deer beyond 200 yards with it. No fuss no muss. One shot each. good for you
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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