Home Forums Fishing Saltwater Terminal tackle question

Okay, first off this is a question about freshwater feesh. Please don't hold that against me but I'm from Nebraska and while there is some salt water in the state I'm pretty certain there's no fish in it.

I am fishing for catfish and some of them get pretty fair sized in the rivers around here. I am using circle hooks -I really like circle hooks- size 4/0 to 7/0 according to the bait size I'm using. Bait is almost always live minnows, shad, blue gills or bullheads. The problem I am having is, while a circle hook catches them in the mouth and hopefully in the lip, it also can leave the hook eye exposed. Cats will rub their lips on the rip-rap used along the river banks to shed themselves of the hooks and they can cut thru the line pretty quickly. I have caught enough cats with hooks still in their mouths to know this is the case. The weekend of the 4th I caught a big blue which almost abraded the 30# mono leader off the hook.

I have read about saltwater fish that will do the same thing and I wonder what knots or snaps etc you use to solve this. Since I use smaller hooks it is hard to tie a Palomar knot with the heavy mono line and get a good clinch on it. I usually use the uni knot of the clinch knot but both leave a lot of line exposed if the fish is lip hooked. I have been snelling the hooks lately but the last cat showed me that wasn't fool proof either - the line broke right at the hookeye just as I grabbed his gills.

Thanks in advance for your help!

A buddy told me about this know he found on youtube. The guy showing the knot is from Malaysia and has some real interesting knot tutorials. The end result is a double line through the hook eye and seems to duplicate the Palomar knot pretty closely but is easier to tie on large hooks. I've tied up a couple salmon leaders with this knot on the trailing hook because they sometimes wear through the single leader at the hook eye when the hook is tied with a snell knot.

If the water quality will allow it, try increasing the size of your leader from 30lb to say 50 or 60lb. If you have some really dingy water, you may even be able to get away with 80lb leader. 4/0 - 7/0 circle hooks are not what I would call a "smaller" hook...these are the typical sizes we use fishing offshore for snapper, cobia, sharks, etc. Depending on brand, you should be able to easily tie a palomar knot with these size hooks using 30, 40 or even 50lb mono / flouro. If you give the 50-80lb leader a try and have difficulties tying knots, don't be afraid to try appropriately sized aluminum crimps.

Unless you try going to wire, I would avoid using any kinds of snap swivels or such as a means to protect the line at the hook. That's a lot of terminal tackle right at the bait. And if I had to guess, its not just your knot that is getting abraded to the point of failure, but also the first few inches of your leader.

Not saying I would suggest trying wire, I don't know how sensitive catfish can be to wire...but that may be a way around your issue also. If you do try wire, you may want to give some single-strand wire a try. For connections, try a haywire twist finished with a few tight barrel wraps to connect to your hook and swivel. I would try going to heavier mono / flouro leaders first before resorting to wire though.

Ward - Thank you for the tip! I watched some of the videos and that guy makes it look really easy...I tried a couple of his knots and they are not easy. He would make a pretty fair pickpocket as dexterous as he is. I am going to tie up some leaders with that double line at the eye and try them.

War Eagle - Thank you for the thoughts. I happen to have a spool of 50# mono sitting right here on the bench. I am going to rig up some leaders with it. The water we fish is called the Muddy Mo for a reason and the heavier line shouldn't bother anything. I have been tying up Santee - Cooper rigs and there is quite a bit of tackle on that 3' length of line. The grandkids are not afraid to wade right into the most rugged, snag infested stretch of water to try to catch something. They don't seem to mind losing 10-15 leader set ups a day. I don't mean to sound stingy, but that gets kind of expensive considering the cost of the weights, floats, swivels and hooks. I may spend a little less time tying new leaders if I go to a heavier line too.

USUALLY......fluorocarbon is more abrasion resistant than mono. I use it for jigging lake trout on rock ledges.

If you are fishing some truly muddy water and relying on the scent of your bait to attract fish (no lure action to affect), then there is no reason to stay light with your leaders. Tie up some 50lb if you have it on hand but I'd be tempted try some 80lb and see if you still get bites.

why use a leader ? i use 20 to 80 lb braid depending on were i am fishing fresh or salt inshore or off shore just tie to the main line. less stuff to fool with or buy

44mc

Ease of use is the primary purpose for the pre-rigged leaders. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the g/kids can burn thru a lot of leaders in a day of fishing and the rig that produces better than any other - the Santee - Cooper - takes some time to construct. I make most of the leaders 3' long starting with a barrel swivel, then a split shot, then either a no-roll flat sinker or an egg sinker, then another split shot, then a peg float ending with a circle hook. I try to keep a couple of dozen of each of the sizes I will need in snack size baggies in coffee cans in a 5 gal. bucket. I can just grab it and go rather than a couple of tackle boxes with assorted tackle and then try to sort thru all of that mess on a river bank while fending off deer flies. I can whip a clinch knot onto the barrel swivel and have the kid back in the water in a couple minutes.

Vern

I see that Seaguar is making a special fluorocarbon listed as "abrasion resistant". I couldn't find any in a quick search of a couple sporting goods stores but I will try to find some on line and try it. Thanks



War Eagle


I am going to try the 50# test and then try to find some HEAVY fluorocarbon stuff. If I am still losing fish I am going to wire. That sounds like a lot of work but I am going to keep trying. Thanks

Braid is strong...but no where near as abrasion resistant as mono or flouro. If he is getting chaffed to the point of line failure, braid will not resolve this issue.

If you go wire, I would recommend single strand stainless (usually coated to some coffee or black pearl color). Avoid the braided or multi-strand wire ("cable").

With some practice, you can do a haywire twist and finish with some barrel wraps about as quickly as tying a typical knot. I wouldn't necessarily consider it a lot of work.

Still...I think I would still try heavy mono / flouro before resorting to wire.

Good luck and let us know what ends up working out.

thanks for the info most times i just use a hook and live bait or a jig head with live bait if bottom fishing when i fish inshore salt water .that is what i do 98% of the time my boat hangs in the back yard . for me braid is better than mono on oyster shells .1% fresh is ultralight with 4 lb mono with a bream hook with a cricket on it . 1% off shore now is what ever rod my nephew gives me to fish with . any more i have more fun keeping his 3 yr old out of the way so him and his wife can fish .in 50 years of fishing here i use the least amount of tackle i can get away with . johnny dollar & war eagle i like to here about how other people fish . and my dumb ass reading skills did not see about taking the kids fishing

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/galleries/15043653/johnny-dollars-pics

44,

I have always tied directly to the line but since we moved closer to the kids I have been fishing bigger rivers and catching bigger fish I have had to learn new tricks. Not a bad thing! Thank you for joining in!

thats a good cat fish . in the spring i fish for black drum in the river 40 to 80 lb are common

Quick update on the leader issue. I found some Seaguar abrasion resistant leader material at Scheels. It was "on sale" for the bargain price of only $49.99 for 25 yards of 90#. After I picked my jaw up from the floor - I left quietly.

For dark water, there is no need for fluoro. As far as abrasion vs mono, it depends on brands, more than material. Fluoro tends to be thinner for weight, and that is why it may appear tougher, but if needed, go up on mono test capacity.

J D i just remembered some people used heavy weed eater line for leader line around here for bottom fishing big grouper. dont know if it will work i have never tried it

I would go co-polymer or flouro-nylon mix.

YoZuri Hybrid, Izorline, SoftSteel, MoMoi Diamond all well received in salt and fresh.

Straight flouro, while more abrasion resistant, cost more; lets be real here, catfish aren't line shy.

A well tied knot of your choice is the best knot.