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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2001
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I have always used a Pact dispenser/scale combo to load. I picked up a Hornady LNL dispenser a few years ago and decided to try it out a few days ago. The initial setup took some time, but I found it threw charges to within .1 of a grain with CFE223. I have inspected every charge and weighed every 5 or so to verify consistency. This process is much faster than weighing every charge,
Who is John Galt?
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,001
Campfire Tracker
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Long range shooters should ignore this...but years ago when Precision Shooting magazine was a big deal, 2 very respected guys in the benchrest world ran some tests... to try to put some sense into the, at that time, hotly debated 'weigh or throw' argument ....deliberately charging 2 rifles of known accuracy with big spreads of powder weights...with frequent control groups fired for accuracy and weather confirmation. I don't recall the details for certain, but the .308 heavy class rifle at 200 yds showed no significant statistical difference between control groups and the deliberately random charges of the test groups. The .22 PPC favored, by a tiny margin the random test groups! Also strangely enough the chronograph did not accurately reflect the charge deviations?? Benchresters stoked their stuff to the gills back in those days, filling cases to the base of the bullet of N133 or H322 was common, which gave lawyers nightmares. I think the bottom line was, everybody stayed with the method they preferred...and wrote a veritable storm of hate mail to the authors the next issue. Maybe we fuss too much. I think this is accurate. Like weighing cases, obsessing over a tenth of a grain of powder is a waste of time for most of us.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all.
Jack O'Connor
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,589
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Joined: Dec 2009
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I weigh every charge and trickle up as needed. Always have, always will. This method works for me and rifle cases. Pistol weigh every tenth .
Never take life to seriously, after all ,no one gets out of it alive.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,518
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Joined: Aug 2011
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I throw ball powder, weigh and trickle extruded powder. Check every tenth throw with ball. Have a baffle in my Uniflow set at about the halfway point, and keep the powder above the baffle. Just how I’ve always done it.
If we live long enough, we all have regrets. But the ones that nag at us the most are the ones in which we know we had a choice.
Doug
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Joined: Apr 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,801 Likes: 1 |
I throw my powder using a Lee Perfect Powder measure and place the pan on the scale and trickle the last few grains in the pan. How many of you weigh every charge as opposed to just throwing a pre-set powder weight and dumping it in the case? I've never trusted the Lee PPM as charges thrown vary depending on volume of powder left in the hopper.
What powder thrower do you recommend that is consistent in throwing extruded powder without the need to weigh every charge? yet, weigh EVERY charge... started out that way and will finish that way... Tried a RCBS Charger, a $1200 set up a friend was wanting to give me.. tried it for a week... gave it back and told him to give it to someone who would appreciate it more than I would...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Aug 2014
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Campfire Tracker
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I weigh every charge for rifle and.pistol. Shotgun i use the dropped amount from the bushing.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,280 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,280 Likes: 1 |
Shotshells, I went with whatever fell out of the charge bar...
Pistol, I set up the powder dispenser and check every 10 or so, rarely anything close to max charge weights.....
Centerfire rifle, throw or dip, and trickle finish EVERY round................
that was before all my weapons burned up in the shed fire................
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
( . Y . )
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,017
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2018
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Rifles charges get weighed via lyman digital powder system. Pistol charges are dumped through an RCBS uniflow measure. I wouldn't be without the electronic powder dumper from Lyman. Charges get weighed while im seating the last round
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,017
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2018
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Rifles charges get weighed via lyman digital powder system. Pistol charges are dumped through an RCBS uniflow measure. I wouldn't be without the electronic powder dumper from Lyman. Charges get weighed while im seating the last round
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,124
Campfire Tracker
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Joined: May 2001
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I use a Lee measure and dump into the 5-0-5 pan and trickle. . Just hunting loads. Those half dozen sticks of IMR 4350 likely don't mean anything, but what the heck. I gave my plastic Lee to my son, the new cast iron doesn't work as smooth..
You can hunt longer with wind at your back
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,849 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,849 Likes: 3 |
Some of you might be very surprised at how well thrown charges shoot, even with stick powders. Particularly if you didn't know which batch was which.
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Joined: Sep 2011
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Joined: Sep 2011
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Weighed all my life , bought a RCBS MATCH MASTER LAST YEAR . Fantastic piece of electronics . I still compare with my RCBS triple beam . Every 10 No change what so ever !
Keep your head on the stock,wood on wood
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,849 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,849 Likes: 3 |
Long range shooters should ignore this...but years ago when Precision Shooting magazine was a big deal, 2 very respected guys in the benchrest world ran some tests... to try to put some sense into the, at that time, hotly debated 'weigh or throw' argument ....deliberately charging 2 rifles of known accuracy with big spreads of powder weights...with frequent control groups fired for accuracy and weather confirmation. I don't recall the details for certain, but the .308 heavy class rifle at 200 yds showed no significant statistical difference between control groups and the deliberately random charges of the test groups. The .22 PPC favored, by a tiny margin the random test groups! Also strangely enough the chronograph did not accurately reflect the charge deviations?? Benchresters stoked their stuff to the gills back in those days, filling cases to the base of the bullet of N133 or H322 was common, which gave lawyers nightmares. I think the bottom line was, everybody stayed with the method they preferred...and wrote a veritable storm of hate mail to the authors the next issue. Maybe we fuss too much. I think this is accurate. Like weighing cases, obsessing over a tenth of a grain of powder is a waste of time for most of us. Along this line I'll report my results from the range this afternoon. I have a batch of Nammo NT 7.62x51 brass I'm just beginning to play with. I don't know its capacity in grains of H20, but it's heavy brass at about 183 grains empty without primer. From some earlier playing around I found out it is definitely of smaller capacity than even Lake City and builds pressure faster. So for what I was going to do today I assembled some of them with Hornady 168 grain BTHP match bullets on top of thrown charges of 39 grains of IMR4895 rather than the 41.5 which is usual in Lake City cases. The choice of charge was not based on anything other than backing off for pressure without being too anemic. The rifle I used is a stainless steel Remington 700 Mountain Rifle which has a very slim Bell and Carlson stock. At least I believe that's the vendor Remington used at the time. The barrel is a very slender one measuring .55" at the muzzle. With a Leupold M8 6x42 mounted in a set of steel Leupold rings and bases it weighs 6.7 pounds. Unfortunately its X-Mark trigger breaks at about 4 1/2 pounds which doesn't help shooting such a light rifle with a stock not really designed for good bench manners. Conditions at the range were not ideal. It was pretty windy and the direction varied from coming in at 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock. Nevertheless after firing a few shots to zero at 100 yards I moved to the 300 yard line. After adjusting the elevation I fired seven rounds into a group holding on the impact splash of the last elevation check round on an AR500 steel torso silhouette target. Recap: Thrown powder charges set to an arbitrary safe level, certainly not a developed load. 6x scope at 300 yards. 6.7 pound rifle/scope with a somewhat heavy trigger. When I went downrange to check I found the seven bullet impact marks made a 4" group. That's just under 1.3 MOA for seven shots. I'm sure that with a 2 1/2 pound trigger, a tuned in powder charge and a less windy on the range I can best that no problem, still without weighing a powder charge. I remain possessed of the opinion that for a lot of purposes a lot of people waste a lot of time weighing powder charges.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,063
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Joined: Jun 2007
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A little late to this party and I'm sure there have been a lot of this for and those against.
I/me/personally measure ever charge. Why? Because I want too.
I prep my cases; weigh my charges; do almost everything possible to be repeatable and I never ever regret it.
YMMV
Remember, not everyone has a happy ending, so be happy when you can
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,161 Likes: 1 |
7mm-08, .30-06, 7mm Rem Mag Chargemaster, weigh every charge
.223 thrown with a Lee.
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Member #547
Join date 3/09/2001
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,801 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,801 Likes: 1 |
I throw my powder using a Lee Perfect Powder measure and place the pan on the scale and trickle the last few grains in the pan. How many of you weigh every charge as opposed to just throwing a pre-set powder weight and dumping it in the case? I've never trusted the Lee PPM as charges thrown vary depending on volume of powder left in the hopper.
What powder thrower do you recommend that is consistent in throwing extruded powder without the need to weigh every charge? I do it exactly like you do... because it is accurate and it works....
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,267
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,267 |
Ever since I started reloading in 1973 I've weighed every rifle charge and thrown pistol charges using an RCBS Little Dandy. Same here ^^^ 10-10 Scale and weights. Little Dandy: I believe there is 26 different rotors. I probably have close to fifty. The extra are drilled to match my final load if needed with that particular powder.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,280 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,280 Likes: 1 |
Overwhelmingly, we are a bunch of anal-retentive tricklers....................
Last edited by Muffin; 03/07/21.
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
( . Y . )
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,801 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,801 Likes: 1 |
Lots of handloaders waste lots of time weighing charges. Yes I do... but I prefer it that way.... Don't rush it, makes me feel better weighing it on my 505 scale..then finish with a trickler.... To each their own, but I am sure each person does what they are the most comfortable and confident in... so their is no wrong choice... I'm sure people are like me.. they find some way new that they think is better than their current way, then they will use it... otherwise they will stay with what they are use to...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,251 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,251 Likes: 6 |
I like the Chargemaster way of doing things.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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