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Preliminary testing with VV N-110 powder shows it works with small primers like the 4759 powder, in plastic cases. Perfect ignition like the 4759. Starting loads are 60 gr min like 4759 for good ignition,600gr slug. In 2 & 3/4" plastic full load is 75gr with card and 1/4" cushion wad.In Nef 24" bbl 1700fps. In 3" plastic 87gr, card and 3/8" wad, 1800 plus. In RMC brass case. 100gr, card and 1/2 wad 1900 plus. All running same safe pressures as 4759 lab tested. So that is two powders that are slower than shotgun powders, and much safer to work with for regular primers, giving at least 20% more velocity. Ed
Ed Hubel
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I can't wait to see the pics of the first animal to hit the ground from one of these. I'm hoping its a big brown bear on video.These things are cannons, cool stuff.
I Kill Things......deal with it..
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Along with the two slower than shotgun powders, IMR 4759 and VV N110 that ignite reliably with shotgun primers, that are easier to load for slugs, in heavy bbl can get 20% plus more velocity, I've found another. It is IMR 7383 $3 a lb surplus. Tested plastic 3" cases, perfect ignition with regular primers. 8 types of cases,600gr slug starting load 100gr. Full load 140gr giving 1800 fps plus in 24" bbl NEF.With loads halfway between start and full didn't even have to resize to shoot again.Full load just has a card wad under slug in 3" plastic.Wad just tight on charge, as no extreme compression of powder needed. Will next do heavier slugs and RMC brass cases. Ed
Last edited by hubel458; 04/29/07.
Ed Hubel
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Tested 730g with 7383. Perfect ignition.Extracts easy. 130gr gives 1650 plus fps in 3" plastic. Tested 800g slug with 7383 in plastic.Works good. Have question about different cases and dies. The RMC cases use a shotgun primer, thus they have a real thick base. They are not a thin headed, balloon headed case, and RMC makes sides thick enough for regular 12ga wads. But in a break action the 3" plastic cases with our 4759, VV110, 7383 loads are close to RMC in power. Can buy a hundred plastic for price of one RMC. 3.5" chamber 12ga with plastic is as good as RMC for 3" And if I shot RMC in Savage to get more power, which I could do as far as the firing process, the expansion above the base, due to being a turned case would make extraction stiff, causing extractor to damage rim. A turned rim will not take what a drawn one will. Rcbs set should do RMC easy.Ed
Ed Hubel
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Tested 870gr hard slug with 7383 in 3" plastic. Over 1500 fps in NEF short barrel. I wish it had a longer 32" barrel.......... The folks at 50 Cal suggested we write up a piece on the 12GA FH. Interested in what we did to make hairy cartridge using 50 cal brass adapted to the 12 gauge shotgun platform. A job for Rob to do? His wild idea has been viewed about 400,000 times in the forums we put it in.Ed
Ed Hubel
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Found another powder that works with small primers in plastic and RMC cases, w/600gr slug. It is IMR 4227. Ignition perfect, same load levels and velocities as 4759.
Powders slower than shotgun type, that ignite properly with small primers(shotgun-lg rifle); we found 4759, VV-110, 4227, 7383 surplus, the latter a slow powder that also works with real heavy slugs Ed
Ed Hubel
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Interesting project. But just wondering why you wouldn't just take a 50 BMG and just cut the barrel shorter since you can shoot 660 grain FMJ and the 14,000 ft/lbs at the muzzle. You won't be able to hunt very long in a shot gun only area with that until words out and your illegal. What is the goal? Are you one of those mad scientists? Are you building this shoulder canon to take out engine blocks at close range? The 50 is already doing that at well over one mile. Hats off anyway to your engineering skills.
It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
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I just like to wildcat real, big bore, stopping cartridges. And if it gives a way for shotgun hunters to have bmg power at much less cost than bmg rifles, so much the better. Shotgun only guys don't need a 1 mile shooter, they need a 200 yd gun with good power, with slugs that lose velocity fast beyond that so there isn't so much danger of hitting things in crowded areas.Ed
Ed Hubel
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I hope you don't get a detached retina. Comparing it to a 378 what would the push be like? More than 75 pound for sure.
It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
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Pressure tested 7383 with heavy powder load. 870 gr with 128 gr of 7383-- All that could be put in REM plastic and keep length to what would feed from magazine of a 3" gun, after it was roll crimped with tool in drillpress. 1513 fps-- 14700 psi. That is a slug 50% heavier than factory Buckhammer at little faster speed and at little less pressure. Ignition perfect, cases fall out. Love that $3 a lb powder.Ed
Ed Hubel
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In France there's an ammo maker named Sauvestte I believe. Interesting story about them but in Europe they are very popular. Their brochure shows a Cape buff that was taken with one of their shotgun slugs.
They make a host of rifle caliber ammo with bullets similar to Barnes and have a pattent on them. Check them out. They got in touch with me about marketing their ammo in America and I referred them to Cabela's but it went nowhere. Nice guys.
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Yes I read about their slugs.They do a good job, and I will see about testing some. If I can get them here.Ed
Ed Hubel
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Finally able to make the longer barrel improvement on the 1887 12ga levergun....... Rifled and heavy and 31" long. After many months finally got a barrel.Ed
Ed Hubel
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With NEF. Plastic cases, roll crimped slug in drillpress. 82gr IMR 4227 1650 fps, with 730gr, 78 gr 4227 with 800gr, 1600. Expansion on cases show little more pressure as full loads of 4759 and 600gr. Ignition perfect with small primers. Ejects cases fine. Burns clean. Got a GEHA bolt 12ga to put a heavier rifled barrel on to test. Ed
Ed Hubel
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Tested 870 gr in NEF with our long brass case with big primer.I have NEF with extra hammer spring for big primer. Got 2000 fps and still able to extract case. Would do little more, extractor needs to be wider and set up positive. Used 260gr of WC-860 and MagPro. Could use RL-22, Rl-25, Retumbo, etc. That's 7700 ft lbs.. I get 600 gr slug to 2300 plus in NEF, long case. so you can go light or heavy.Ed
Ed Hubel
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Tested 870 gr in NEF with our long brass case with big primer.I have NEF with extra hammer spring for big primer. Got 2000 fps and still able to extract case. Would do little more, extractor needs to be wider and set up positive. Used 260gr of WC-860 and MagPro. Could use RL-22, Rl-25, Retumbo, etc. That's 7700 ft lbs.. I get 600 gr slug to 2300 plus in NEF, long case. so you can go light or heavy.Ed
Ed Hubel
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More testing with 4227. Greg got little over 1500 fps in 3" plastic with 870 gr slug using 74-75 gr of 4227. I did the same. This compares to much lighter REM Buckhammer slug, we have more speed. Almost all the way through 5 ft bundle hardwood boards. I have Mossy 695 as well as GEHA 12 gauge to put heavy rifled barrels on. And my 87. Will be checking Mossy 395 for a guy who wants to put on a heavy barrel.Here is pic of 695 bolt action Mossberg with dinky barrel and the heavy long rifled barrel for it. Ed
Ed Hubel
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Tested in NEF, 3" cases, Alliant 2400 with small primers, Fired ok at 75 deg but when case cooled there was majority of misfires and squib loads. Don't reccomend it.. Here is picture of Mauser 12ga bolt action GEHA next to a heavy barrel like I will put on it Make a good slug gun.Ed
Ed Hubel
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The 12GA From Hell, my 700HE, and 700HE 3.25" are now on Ammoguide, the last page of cartridge list.Recent news says H&H is going to build Paradox Shotgun/Rifles again...Ed http://ammoguide.com/?catid=611
Ed Hubel
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Saw info on a break action that would handle 12ga FH.It is Cole, with a strong top lock and real wide strong extractor.Monoblock. Real wide and strong..Ed
Ed Hubel
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