Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 300 Win vs 35 Whelen?

I posted this question in the CampFire back 8years ago in 2012 lol.....

Well, it’s had a good run so far!

The Whelen is my choice for a rifle with a 20" barrel and doesn't loose the velocity like a 300 win mag will with a 20" barrel!

The 35 Whelen requires far less powder to achieve equal velocities as the 300 win mag

The 35 Whelen barrel will last far longer than a 300 win mag barrel as well!

There is an argument to be made for the superior sectional density of the 300 win mag but if the game you are shooting gets pass thru's Everytime with a 35 Whelen the argument than leans toward the 35 Whelen likely deposited more energy inside the animal due to frontal diameter of the bullet passing thru

For under 300 yards I'd give the edge to the Whelen for versatility

Trystan

It's a great question 😁😁😁

Show me.

Why only question that?
"The Whelen is my choice for a rifle with a 20" barrel and doesn't loose the velocity like a 300 win mag will with a 20" barrel!"

No! Look it up 🤗

Try Speer Data - almost 100fps more velocity with 8 grains less powder...

the Alaska Game Department is highly flawed because the authors were mathematical idiots. And maybe just idiots.

1. The authors got the formula for an ellipse wrong, resulting in a calculated expansion that was 4x greater than it should be, and erroneously skewed the results in favor of expanding bullets regardless of their initial or final diameters.

2. The authors don’t seem know the difference between “retained bullet weight” and “percent retained bullet weight”, or between “bullet expansion” and “percent bullet expansion”.

Using the author’s methodology, the .224” bullet would score 100 in both retained weight and expansion, while the .458” bullet would score 64 and 90 respectively. These interim scores are then multiplied together (along with those for striking energy and penetration, which we will ignore for now) to achieve a final score. Hence the .224” bullet scores 10,000 while the .458” bullet scores 5,760, or a little over half what the .224” bullet scores in these categories. The author’s methodology resulted in silly stuff like a 7x57 Mauser with a 175 grain bullet with a retained weight of 91g outscoring a 12 gauge 438g slug with a retained weight of 420g, even though the slug out-penetrated the 7mm bullet.

It seems to me that it would make much more sense to compare retained weight in grains, not percent, and bullet expansion in inches instead of percent, and base the scores accordingly. In this manner, the .224 scores 55 and .448, which combine to form a score of 25.19, while the .458” bullet scores 364 and .75, for a combined score of 273. I think most of us would agree the .45-70 is more likely to be 10 times more effective than a .22-250 for the purposes cited, rather than half as effective, so this methodology at least passes the laugh test.

I redid the report's table of cartridges using the correct formula for an ellipse and added a column where the measured parameters were ADDed rather than multiplied, but included the multiplied results for comparison with the original report and the ADDed column of results. Contrary to the Alaska Game report, 16 of the top 18 results involved a .458" bullet. A .375" bullet came in at numbers 11 and 18.

You win today’s internet!
If only we could get them to manage mosquitoes ...

Them’s my cinnaments xactly.

I made a 35 W before Rem adopted it.

I had and HAVE a 300 WM now. For ‘my use’ I’ll take the 300 also.

Now, not to besmirch the good Col., I don’t need the heavy (250 gr) bullets
and a 200 or 220 gr 30 cals have higher BC & SD than the corresponding
35 cals.
* some guys don’t know or lose sight of that *

Jerry

To be fair, the Good Col. had the cartridge named after him. It was not his baby.

How does that work in the Taylor Knock-Down Formula?

Larger calibers are efficient, but the rub is picking a decent bullet and then pushing it at greater speeds. Physics says there are limits on what you can do...

I have used a number of Whelens over a very long time... starting in the '60s. I currently own two 35WAI rifles. I have shot a bunch of stuff with one of them over the past 40 years. I have used most 30 magnum cartridges at one time or another and a couple rifles I have used a lot. I went through the Partition phase, the Hornady Phase, even had a Sierra Phase with 30Magnums. Then I found Jesus holding up a box of Barnes... The Whelen ain't close...

I guess it depends on your usage, but I would still have no problem using a 35 Whelen for anything in AK. When it comes to the big nasty stuff, I'd go ahead and take my 35 WAI with a 310 Woodleigh. 4' of penetration in water and 98% weight retention should do just fine. It also has an SD well beyond that of a .308 220 grain pill.



Of course, I also have a 300 Mag (Weatherby), so I can make use of whatever advantage the 30 cal projectiles have if I wanted to. I guess that is why there is more than one cartridge available.

I'm curious how fast you are able to push those 310's, and what powder you are using. I shoot a 315-320 gr cast bullet in a standard Whelen at about 1950 with a sedate load of 42 grains of R-15. I'm sure I could kill anything on the planet with that at will, but I could push it faster.

I am using RL15 for those 310's as well. I was only pushing them 2250-2300fps. The slug was found in the 8th milk jug, having cracked the back - I measured it at 4' to the back of that jug.

I also shoot the NOE Thumper in my Whelens. I use WC852 or WC 852f surplus and worked my way up to 55 grains of WC852f. I water dropped them and used 2500+ lube.

Wow, that's screaming! I've only cast one batch of a few hundred, and cast them hard enough for about 2200 mv according to my calculations and experience. I didn't see the need to push them harder than 1950 because the 42 grains shot so well, but I'll throw more R-15 in cases and see what happens. I use a version of homemade lube formula that Glen Fryxell came up using moly grease, beeswax, and carnauba wax. It works very well for high-pressure/high-velocity loads.

Thanks for the info!

That'a whole lot of bullet!

It is! Obviously not needed for most stuff, but if you need 300+ grains, it should actually penetrate better than a 375 H&H.