Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting 7mm RM vs. 280AI - ABLR

I have a couple 280's and a couple 7mm RM's. But I wanted a long range coyote rifle. I had a 700 action blue printed, a premium varmint weight 26" 7mm barrel that I had chambered in 280AI placed it in a Kevlar stock, after market trigger, heavy recoil lug, target scope - the works...

My 7mm RM is an early 1960's vintage BDL. I loaded some 168 ABLR bullets and the first load shot about 3/5 MOA. But I wanted better and I had I high hopes for the 280 AI...

Today I sot the 280AI:
175 ABLR with RE26 - 1.46" 5 shot group at 104 yards
168 ABLR with RE 26 - 1.815" 5 shot group at 104 yards
150 gr Nosler partitions - 1.28" 5 shot at 82 yards

I was disappointed - to say the least!

Then I had some fire forming loads that I had I thrown together last winter with 150 grain Remington CL's, 140 grain CL's and 154 grain SST's - The CL's shot about 2 to 3 MOA. But the SST's shot into a small hole - about 1/10 MOA. _ I had thrown these loads together using up some old powder I never would otherwise use and I didn't write down the powder, primer or charge weight. I have hopes for that 280AI.

Long story short, I'm looking for your favorite 280AI loads for long range.

I have shot a number of deer and antelope with both the 7mmRM and 280AI.
With both factory rifles and rifles built on my lathe.

I like the 140 gr Nos Bal Tip, Nosler brass, and IMR-4166,


280AI 56.2 gr 4166, 140 gr NBT or AB, 3.34," 67kpsi, 3100 fps

Thanks. I'll try that.

Bugger, you need to stick with one bullet, work up a load instead of trying to hit a home run by just picking a load. Your method is helter skelter at BEST.

If you need help, let me know.

I fully disagree with your analysis. Unless you have a favorite load I don't need your help on anything else. Thank you very much.

I have tried these few loads as a start. Thursday I started shooting rifles early in the morning and didn't take a lunch break until 3:00 in the afternoon. I went back out after lunch and shot until dark. I keep all my targets and record results. If I were to only shoot one rifle and work with one bullet there wouldn't be enough days in the shooting season.

In the evening I analyze and I modify loads. I will often take out 5 or 6 rifles with multiple loads each - a couple days ago it was 8 rifles. I record what works and what does not. Today, it is raining and I am spending time at the reloading bench working with modified loads, sometimes different powders, sometimes different charges.

Those loads I tried with the 280 AI were my first trials with the ABLR's. I have some loads I've tried in the past that I would not call "long range loads" that shot very well. I was not pleased with these first ABLR loads! But I built that rifle for a specific reason. That reason is long range coyotes, nothing else. My reason for asking is to find out what works well for others - hopefully will save time and energy.

You are trying to save time and energy but what you are doing is wasting time and energy with your approach.

My .280 Ackley is very accurate with a near max load of H4831sc. Current load is a 168 Berger VLD at 2,820. 22" barrel.

Good luck in your quest.

Are you trying different seating depths? My experience with ABLRs (and other high-BC bullets) is they often shoot more accurately with seated somewhat deeper.

Same here. I’m at 59.5gr but I’m shooting moly costed bullets because I had that gun built when moly was still cool....grin

Neither would be my choice for a coyote rifle. Trip em and build a coyote rifle, specially a 243 with 55’s at 4 grand. Makes a great buck load too.

60.6 grains of IMR 7828 with 160 NAB is money in mine.

59 grains 7828 with 155 Federal TLR is money in mine.

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

Thanks. I had them just off the lands - normal practice for me. I'll try seating them deeper. I have had little (almost zero) experience with ABLR's or other low drag bullets except with my 7mm RM, which liked the 168's. I had not tried the 175's in the 7mm since I expected that the factory 7mm would not stabilize them - but I will try them too.

I had not worked with the 280AI fast twist rifle before except with some "standard" hunting bullets. It shot them fine. I bought several boxes of both 168's and 175's ABLR's. With the first trial with those bullets I was disappointed! Thus the question.

I could have shot my 32 Special with cast bullets and iron sights better than that. I thought there had to be something wrong with the scope or something else, then some of my fire forming loads shot into one hole. Therefore it was those loads.

Where I live the winds are often high. I will often see coyotes at long ranges - 500 yards plus. There is a lot of slews, ponds, and lakes around here and coyotes some years are plentiful. I built this rifle for those long ranges. (It is not because of a lack of varmint rifles). I'm thinking with these heavy bullets there should be little pelt damage, especially at those ranges.

I live in the North East corner of South Dakota which oddly enough, the lowest point in elevation in the state is only about 10 miles away - 1,043 feet above sea level.. The low elevation and the high humidity here, I felt those ABLR'S would require a fast twist.

If I can't get the 280AI to shoot as well as the 7mm RM with these bullets (or other low drag bullets) it will be for sale as this is what I consider a specialty rifle. That 7mm RM is maybe 2 pounds lighter due to barrel diameter.

Okie dokey. Think what you want and continue to waste time and components.

I think Greg knows what he is talking about.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/

You will never quit learning from guys on this site, many of the best shooters in the World and best gunsmiths in the World are on this site.

My 280 AI likes 140 Nosler BT's and IMR 7828. The powder I have is old and in metal cans and I have two different cans from two different lot numbers and each has the charge weight written on the can that makes this rifle shoot in the .3 group size. I am getting right at 3100 FPS out of mine.
I learned a long time ago, change one thing and one thing only when working loads. If you change more than one, the changes can offset each other and you can miss what you are trying to accomplish.....ymmv

I like 140 Ballistic tips with 64 grains of IMR 4350 in my 7 mags. All are sub inch. I’ve been using this same load for 40 years, used partitions for 25, switched to Ballistic tips when partitions became difficult to obtain. Ballistic tips kill deer, pigs, and Aoudads just as well. Mine are loaded to factory length. I always start at factory length when I get a new rifle.

I agree with Hanco on he bullet choice of 140 gr NBT, but I moved from IMR4350 to H4350 for temp stability and then moved to IMR4166 for temp stability and no Copper fouling.

64 gr IMR 4350 is about 60kpsi.
I run 75 kpsi in 7mmRM and never re use brass.

In Remingtons and A bolts 7 Mags, 65-66g of IMR 4350 with Rem 9 1/2 is a sweet spot in shooting sub 3/8" groups in bedded and bbls floated rifles, touch the lands or back off .005 for these tiny groups...7 mag, saw several savages shoot the same load also, Rem brass all the way around.
If you try jumping the bullets as little as .025, accuracy is shot to hell! Multiple rifles have proved this,140g Nosler ballistic tips.

I had one rifle that shot a single bullet hole with Win brass and a 215 with 65g, while most rifles will like Rem brass with 9 1/2 at 65.5-66g, 140g Nosler ballistic tips.

I had great luck with the same loads with a 140g ttsx jumping the bullet .050 from the lands..

Right!

I worked up accuracy loads in the 7 mag with 140g :

4064-3000 with cci 250 a must or hang fires

R#19 at 3250

IMR 4350

Big Game

New IMR Enduron powder equal to 4350

All shot tiny groups with the 140g Nosler ballistic tip and the 140g ttsx.

What my rifle likes maybe somewhat different than yours as bore dia is different, your lot# of powder is different, and your sizing dies are different.

I only worked with one powder at a time, cleaned the copper out every 20-30 shots, and there was copper in the barrel since velocity was 3200 and above with all powders other than IMR 4064.

Start with a rifle that has been bedded, barrel floated, trigger tweeked or you simply may not know what kinda results you get that will be repeatable. I did

have 140g Sierras blow up on shoulders of big deer, went to a 150 and 160g Sierra and fixed that problem post haste!

It has been stated before: Kiss the lands, find pressure on your load, then make adjustments to find best accuracy within 30 shots, darn quick.


ON another note,
A 280 bolt gun is dumb butt simple to load for with a 140g, bunch of powders. I shoot the 160g Nosler partition at 2930 fps with a load right out of the Nosler #4 manual, Rem 700 with a 24" barrel, IMR 7828, FEd 210(key).

Bugger, there are people on here who definitely know what they're talking about. And if Keith offers his advice you'd do well to listen.

If you have the above that shoot <0.5” consistently, why not just use your 280 Remington or 7 mm if you want to throw .284s?

Why no mention of the 150 or 162 eldx?

Paying attention as I have generic "Campfire loads that work" made up for a couple three rifles.

Generic home run 7 rem load

180 scenar
68 gr IMR 7977 in ADG (a tad more in rem/hornady brass)
CCI 250
2.760” BTO

Haven’t seen this formula fail to impress yet in a Remington 700.As always work up to verify ..

I like the ABLR in both cartridges but it can be a tad finicky about seating depth and loading. But it would be about my last choice for coyotes with multiple other bullets working better depending on range and usually easier to get to shoot and cheaper too.

VV 165, R22, R26 & MRP have worked well in my 280 AI. H870, R22, R26, H4931, MRP have worked in my 7RM's.

....

That was my thinking as well. I’ve got some loads worked up with 150 gr Eld-x and RL22, that I need to just find a time to get to the range and test out. If they shoot anything close like the 123 and 130 gr. ELD’s ( match and x) shoot out of my .260 Rem, I’ll be thrilled.

I use the 150 eldx in my 7mm-08 Tikkas, mv 2790.

I use the 162 eldx in my 7mm Rem Mag at 2970.

Very accurate, kills right now.




P

I would load a similar cheaper bullet to find a good charge weight then switch to the ABLR and take a seating die to the range. Basically follow the advice on the Berger reloading tips page on seating. Use big increments to start then fine tune. The longer and sleeker the bullet is the more tuning it needs has been my experience. Especially ones like the VLDs, Sirrocco II, and ABLR. Sometimes the velocity nodes and seating depth will transfer between bullets.

My 280AI likes R26 I am shooting the 140 AB at around 3200 fps and it is a deer killing machine. I have the ABLR but don't feel much need to switch.

Allways had good luck with WW brass 65-66 grs, imr 4831, fed 215's, and 139 gr Hornady btsp 3175 -3200 fps in the 7mm mag with a 24" barrel for out there deer loads. MB

Hahahahaha

those goofy bastids think "Big Stuff" is 7mm & 30 cal, then they all talk about 7mm-08 and 308 Win

LMMFAO

Haven’t fired any 7mm in decades, but I’ll bet those ABLs aren’t going to be as “fur friendly” as Mr. Bugger thinks.

Pics please, when you tag one.

Example of one...the 7mm 168 ABLR at 3000fps (muzzle) is NOT fur friendly on a bobcat at 200 yds. 😮 Think softball.

Think blown in half!

My experience with ABLRs like many other people is they like to jump. Don't have my notes in front of my but I got them shooting well with .080 of jump and .130 of jump. Don't try kissing the lands with these bullets.

In my 280 AI, warmish load of IMR 7828, FED , 175g LRAB shoots tiny clover leafs with no paper between the bullets! Bullets kissing the lands...probably the exception to the rule.

I just did a load work up with my 7 Mashburn, ended up .100” off the lands and my groups look like Keith described.

Nice - is this a custom rifle?

Beater custom, Rem 700, non trued, Boyd's laminate, #5 taper X caliber 9T, 27" long, Re sprung Walker trigger. Barrel is floated, action is skim coat bedded in the boyd's laminate.

If you have a Nosler manual #4, you will see a load for the std 280 with 160g bullets with IMR 7828 at 2930 fps...my old Rem 700 shot that load very well. This gives you some idea what a 280/280 AI is really capable of.

If you want to have some real nice 280 AI brass, make it out of Lapua 30/06 brass, the brass is so tough, it is hard to open up the primer pockets.

Tag

I had a 7mm Rem mag that I tried several different powders in and it would not shoot. I had bought some Accurate powder just to blow cases out with and when I tried that, it shot .5 inch groups.
I have a 280AI that loves IMR 7828 with 140.
Rifles are funny, in that just because you want to use one bullet, it may or may not shoot it. I had Sid Goodlin build me a 260 and was going to use 123 Horn bullets, it would not shoot them for crap. Swapped bullets and it was and is a hammer.

Good info Keith. I ran a 7RM long ago, 160 - 162s at 2860 for accuracy - did a great job. Thanks.

I have a christensen Ridgeline in 280 ai that shoots the 168 ablr 1/2 moa consistently. I started with a powder that I knew would give me the speeds I want with a full but not compressed load density. H1000 fit so I worked up to pressure then played with seating depth a little and found my load.

I'm using formed rem brass, cci 250s, H1000, and the 168 ablr at 2900 fps from a 24" barrel.

Bb

That’s a helluva good one. My buddy uses H1000 and the 160 AB in a Kimber. It’s a darned good combo.

I use IMR 4350 for a wide variety of bullet weights for 7mm Rem Mag. It’s use dictates multiple bullet weights in my opinion because it’s great on pronghorn and mule deer (139 SST and 140 gr BT) as well as elk and moose.

You’re stating long range coyotes as your theme of use. Why would you want spend that kind of money shooting a 160-170 class premium bullet like an ABLR on a varmint dog? Seems kinda excessive for vamintimg. I still have some older (not made any longer) Hornady 120 HP for dog killing. Typically you can call dogs inside 200 yards and closer. Hornady has since replaced the HP with 120 gr VMax. That weight of bullet travels easily at 3,350 fps, at that speed there is no real drop with 300 yd zero and minimal easy to handle drift at 500 yards.

I guess I’m old school not really needing 700-1000 yd BC capability with more recoil, especially on coyotes at ABLR bullet prices. Best of luck with your 7mm loads.

I use 162 eldx, 68g Imr 7828 in 7mm rm. Also 150g scenar L or 150g eldx, 69g 7828. In sako a7 roughtech, cloverleafs & gets the job done.

7Rm generic load for 160-168g bullets is

71.0g of Retumbo
Fed 215
3100 fps
Shoots tiny groups

Start at 68g and work up in 2 shot groups, you are looking for bullets touching or better.

7828 makes the 280ai perfect.

I use 58.5 grains with 162 eld shoots amazing. 3040 fps
Then 61 grains with 150 LRAB 3030fps

A couple of 7 mags have done real well with Retumbo and IMR7828. They both required different OAL