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Joined: Nov 2006
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Hi Henrik and Welcome
Are your rifle barrels from Germany still hammer forged? Most of the big hunting rifle makers in Europe hammer forge their barrels. Sako and Tikka in Finland, Heckler&Koch, Steyr and Sauer in Austria. Now,Ruger in the US make their barrels also like this. I guess it is the fastest method since you can produce a barrel in 3 mins including profiling/rifling. The quality although is poor. Is Huska also hammer forging?
It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 73
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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I believe that the quality of a rifle barrels depends on a lot more then just if it's hammer forged, cut or button rifled. The attention and the knowledge put into the manufacturing process. I've seen some pretty impressive results from hammerforged barrels both in military sniping and in ordinary hunting guns.
So I'm curious of what you are basing your statement on?
Best regards,
Henrik
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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I'm basing my statement on that not a single hammer forged barrel is in the winners circle on any long range shooting competion in the USA. Could there be something to that? Correct me if I'm wrong anyone on the campfire.
It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 73
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Posts: 73 |
That's probably correct, but then you'll not see any factory barrels at all in thoose winner circles will you? I have seen quite a few 1/2 moa guns with hammer forged barrels (mostly Sako TRG's) but I do agree with your reasoning. For my own custom project I've choosed to install Borders Cut rifled barrelblanks right out of Scotland. So I'm not exactly putting my money where my mouth is  . Best regards, Henrik
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Very good choice. The Germans invented the hammer forging process because they couldn't produce barrels fast enough to keep up with the consumption of them on their machine guns.
Pretty well common knowledge. The reason I believe that this type of barrel is not used in competition is because of the heat generated by shooting so much that the barrel built in stresses from hammer forging make the barrel distort slightly. Of course they are good when cold shooting and I believe you about the capability of less than .5 MOA. Border single cut their rifling and lap with lead so you can be sure of a good result. Stress relieving the barrel after each step which will guarantee a good job. It would probably take several hours to produce the barrel you have chosen not even counting the 100 strokes of lapping in the procedure. Let me know how your project goes, I also am interested in Border products.
It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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For my own custom project I've choosed to install Borders Cut rifled barrelblanks right out of Scotland. So I'm not exactly putting my money where my mouth is . Best regards, Henrik Hej Henrik I used a Border barrel for my own custom rifle in .358 Norma Mag here in the north (Ume�). Great barrel! Extremely accurate, doesn't foul much, easy to clean... all one could ask for. John
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I believe the rotary forging machines and the foundations to mount them have such a high initial expense it prevents any small barrel maker from using them.
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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That's what I suspect as well.
There's no reason for any custom barrelmaker to invest hundredthousands of dollars just to save time as they are able to charge the end customer for their time anywqay.
As I said before, I've seen hammerforged barrels perform extremly well on both Sako TRG's as well as Mannlicher SSG's so I know that given a decent operator and good ammunition they will perform.
Regarding the barrels on Huskvarna I checked it with a former employee of Huskvarna and he said that the barrels cut at least to his knowledge.
Best Regards,
Henrik
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Henrik, welcome to the forums and thank you for your input. I have relatives in Norway who live in a valley with a large moose population. It is my sincere hope to hunt with them some day and to also visit Sweden. Again, many thanks for your posts and the pictures. Ward
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Joined: Mar 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Henrik,
Welcome to the campfire, I really enjoyed reading your informative posts.
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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I know the rotary forge that Steyr had 25 years ago cost well over $1,000,000. The steel becomes work-hardened, but very hot from the zillions of hammer blows, and the cooling process can be controlled to control temper and annealing to some degree, before any other steps. Also, there is nothing to say that you cannot do a final broach cut or ceramic finishing operation on the bore.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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When hunting in snow, do Swedish hunters use insulated clothing or mostly wool?
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Forget all the myth about barrel making.
Just take a hammer forged barrel out of the box, shoot and enjoy.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,871
Campfire Tracker
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Ruistola Just what breed of dog is your wife training
and you are using in some of the other pictures they
look a bit like water spaniels. Also welcome to the
forum. Always look forward to input from other parts
of the world. Thanyou, Cheers Northcountry
don't judge until you have walked a mile in other persons' moccasins'
SUM QUOD SUM........HOMINEM TE ESSE MEMENTO
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Henrik what is your project ,calibre, lenth of barrel etc.
When you say I have project you must tell what you are up to!!
I look forward to your reply with all of the details'
Cheers NC
don't judge until you have walked a mile in other persons' moccasins'
SUM QUOD SUM........HOMINEM TE ESSE MEMENTO
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Forget all the myth about barrel making.
Just take a hammer forged barrel out of the box, shoot and enjoy. Well, just to play Devil's Advocate a bit...  Unless you are interested in benchrest accuracy... (I don't happen to be interested in .01 inch differences that make the benchrest game, but there is a reason hammer-forged barrels don't dominate benchrest competition. Unless you want a custom twist not readily available in a hammer-forged barrel (which I did: standard twists in .35 cal are slower than what I wanted) Unless you want a bore-size a little larger or tighter than standard (I specified a slightly tighter bore to let me better shoot .357 handgun bullets better in my .358 Norma Mag -- I like shooting big bores for practice, but cheaply! Unless you find available hammer-forged barrels too heavy in contour. Hammer-forged barrels often don't take kindly to being turned down to a lighter contour for a custom rifle -- the residual stresses from the forging sometimes causing problems. In contrast, cut rifled barrels can be turned down quite drastically... All joshing aside, I totally agree that there is a lot of "mythconceptions" among hunters regarding barrels, and I do agree that hammer-forged barrels are certainly accurate enough for virtually all hunting applications, but they are "one size fits all". Part of the satisfaction of having a custom rifle is having it exactly the way you want it -- including the inside of the bore! Neither forged, nor button-rifled bores offer the flexibility that a cut-rifled barrel maker can offer. Sako hammer-forged barrels are readily available (at least here in Sweden!) and great value because they often shoot extremely well, but they don't offer much flexibility. Having said all that, I must admit that most of my past and present rifles had forged barrels and shoot better than I can in any hunting condition... Of course, if I had any common sense I'd just shoot a factory rifle with its factory barrel and never spend any money on a custom rifle anyway!
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Joined: May 2007
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Ruistola Just what breed of dog is your wife training
and you are using in some of the other pictures they
look a bit like water spaniels. Also welcome to the
forum. Thanks, They are cocker spaniels.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,128
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
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Forget all the myth about barrel making.
Just take a hammer forged barrel out of the box, shoot and enjoy. Well, just to play Devil's Advocate a bit... Unless you are interested in benchrest accuracy... (I don't happen to be interested in .01 inch differences that make the benchrest game, but there is a reason hammer-forged barrels don't dominate benchrest competition. Unless you want a custom twist not readily available in a hammer-forged barrel (which I did: standard twists in .35 cal are slower than what I wanted) Unless you want a bore-size a little larger or tighter than standard (I specified a slightly tighter bore to let me better shoot .357 handgun bullets better in my .358 Norma Mag -- I like shooting big bores for practice, but cheaply! Unless you find available hammer-forged barrels too heavy in contour. Hammer-forged barrels often don't take kindly to being turned down to a lighter contour for a custom rifle -- the residual stresses from the forging sometimes causing problems. In contrast, cut rifled barrels can be turned down quite drastically... All joshing aside, I totally agree that there is a lot of "mythconceptions" among hunters regarding barrels, and I do agree that hammer-forged barrels are certainly accurate enough for virtually all hunting applications, but they are "one size fits all". Part of the satisfaction of having a custom rifle is having it exactly the way you want it -- including the inside of the bore! Neither forged, nor button-rifled bores offer the flexibility that a cut-rifled barrel maker can offer. Sako hammer-forged barrels are readily available (at least here in Sweden!) and great value because they often shoot extremely well, but they don't offer much flexibility. Having said all that, I must admit that most of my past and present rifles had forged barrels and shoot better than I can in any hunting condition... Of course, if I had any common sense I'd just shoot a factory rifle with its factory barrel and never spend any money on a custom rifle anyway! Hey Du Svenska Devils Advocate - almost all the stuff you wrote is true - but mostly true is your last sentence. Serious - cold hammer forged barrels were never as excellent as today. In the shooting seminars I do, and during the tests for my magazine, we use many test rifles. In the last 5 or 6 years I simply can't remember one hunting rifle with an inert accuracy potential of not better than 1/2 MOA, given the right factory fodder and using proper mounts and decent sopes. Handloads improve even more. I'm talking mostly Blaser, Mauser, Sauer rifles with the occasional Sako, Tikka, Steyr, and Brno.
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Campfire Outfitter
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ROE_DEER: Indeed, my shooting hobby is almost completely unencumbered by common sense! Nice chatting with you -- and pulling your leg a bit... We don't disagree on much, judging from your other posts that I've read! John
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Joined: Jul 2008
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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great chart and info on hunting in Sweden. a bit of a bucket list item for me. Another 'rifle loony' here as well Henrik.
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