Home Forums Gear Horses and ATV's New 4 wheeler advice?

I hear a lot of people complain about the differential lock or lack thereof, on the Honda's. Frankly, I don't see the big deal, i've been riding Honda's pretty much exclusively for about 18 years now and ever felt that i needed the diff lock. I don't ride a lot of the nasty mud and I don't get stuck that often, experience has taught me well over the years on how to read a creek, river or mudhole. Good tires make a huge difference as well, that coupled with experienced riding can make a huge difference. I like Honda's, always have and always will but there are a lot of very good machines out there, you just have to find the one's thats best for you.

Speaking only for myself, once you have used a Diff lock you will never want an open diff again. Especially in snow.

It's simply amazing, in operation. It's why a bobcat has diff lock to do what it does. Although it's skid steer, it still has all four wheels locked.

Now this can go the other way too, the Can Am has a diff lock that is simply the most dangerous design I've ever seen or driven. It requires some wheel spin to engage. The engagement can occur at any moment and with rather high RPM. It can and has nearly ripped the grips out of my hands when climbing a steep rutted road. So I see the bad in poor Diff lock designs as well. I much prefer to select when I want it and when I don't.

The Auto diff lock on the Can Am is as bad as not having it at all, actually worse as it can be dangerous in my opinion! Imagine climbing a steep hill with pretty good wheel spin and RPM, then the front locks and jerks the handle bars towards the newly found traction, your sideways in a heartbeat. I've done it more then once and it's a surprise out of nowhere everytime it happens. If the ATV starts or jumps up that sidehill when the front locks your in a rollover situation PDQ!

It took only a few rides before I was convinced that my skill set on that auto diff lock was nowhere near what was needed to ride one!

Apparently JJ should have said aside from the Rubicon????

Unless you've got a diff lock ya really don't know what your missing.Wouldn't want to be without it.

Y A M A H A - check out the '07 big bear 400 ! It's awsome.
I have an 05 big bear & really like this atv. It's not fast (50mph tops) but has a super low first gear that would pull a house of the foundation . about $5000.00 for the 07 model around here.

I am with mtnhntr on this one. Could have bought anything when I bought my last one. Visco lock, diff lock, super low, super super low, IFS, all that really doesn't mean chitt to me. I want it to start and run each and every time I push the little button. Be overloaded as much as 5 times the weight allowed on the racks. She will be able to rollover in a creek and be turned right side up, push the little button blow a little smoke and down the trail she goes. I have seen a lot of wheelers take a beating in Alaskas back country , from hunters to Gold miners and have yet to see one that will endure and perform with reliable results what the Hondas do. I dont have a front diff lock and have pulled lots of folks out of the muck, dragged a few wheelers from way out of the back country and have yet to take mine to a dealer for a repair. For this kind of wheeler i will always go Honda. But it is a lot of money to invest these days so a guy has to buy what a guy wants to buy, even if its all the bells and whistles he wants.

The last time I checked,the only hydrostatic tranny in a honda was the rubicon. The hydrostatic tranny is fine and great,until it [bleep] up and you have to pay for repairs. I've seen too many yamahas using a belt drive with over 20k miles on them.And original belt with no repairs to believe that the Hydrostatic tranny is the end all of trannies. Hell honda is using a modified prelude tranny in the rincon,so they must even have reservations on the greatness of the hydrostatic tranny.. Hondas electronic shift is another area that see's failure with regularity.The last I heard from my honda dealer,a minor repair to the electronic shift is easily $800. I can rebuild a complete CVT for a fraction of that with a new belt.

I bought a first year rubicon to try out the hydrostatic tranny.It worked as well as any belt drive I've owned. It had no ground clearance,which is typical of honda. It rode rough as hell which is what swingarms do and why nobody wants them anymore,And the drum brakes were dogsh!t just like all drum brakes are.A couple creek crossings and brakes are a thing of the past.The 4wd was typical of a nonlocking diff. When you need it the wheel in the air is spinning and you're still stuck. I've been in too many situations where the front locker on a yamaha made all the differance in the world.

My father in law owns this particular rubicon now and I'm glad I sold it. He putts around on logging roads at 5mph and pounds the [bleep] out of his kidneys and then complains all night about old age. He's also sank over 600 dollars into the electronic shifter also. The dealer knew exactly what was wrong he'd already replaced a couple dozen that year.All on an atv that was never abused and always garaged.


Honda has sat on their nuts for so long and allowed other manufacturers to bring out better designs that the consumer actually wants,they aren't even competitive anymore.Durability isn't even their strong point anymore,other manufactureres have matched that also.

Can Am is typical bombardier/sled mentality. Put the biggest baddest motor in it and the hell with anything else like durability. I've ridden the 800 a number of times,since a friend owns one. It will pull a wheelie like a dirt bike. But the SOB has been in the shop 3 times in the last thousand miles. Then you have one of the worst frame designs in the industry. All for around $10,500 american,plus another $350 for a ricochet skid on it.


As for tires,Maxxis bighorns are in a league of their own.

The 400 at also uses a hydrostatic transmission.



My Rubicon is a 2002,and I have yet to experience any problems.



The hydrostatic transmission used on the Rubicon will handle the rubicons 500cc engine just fine,but it can slip if much more power is applied.For that reason,honda uses a different transmission in the rincon.



Perhaps in the desert terrain that they are designed for,but nobody has much luck with them in the muskeg that we have where I live.Mud Bugs,Gators,or Mudrunners all do a much better job in the soft deep stuff.

http://www.maxxis.com/products/automotive/news_article.asp?id=236

The hydrostatic transmission used on the Rubicon will handle the rubicons 500cc engine just fine,but it can slip if much more power is applied.For that reason,honda uses a different transmission in the rincon.



Perhaps in the desert terrain that they are designed for,but nobody has much luck with them in the muskeg that we have where I live.Mud Bugs,Gators,or Mudrunners all do a much better job in the soft deep stuff.

http://www.maxxis.com/products/automotive/news_article.asp?id=236


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There again if the hydrostatic tranny was all its made out to be by the consumer. Honda would have used it in their flagship,the rincon. If CAT can use a hydrostatic tranny with that level of horsepower,honda could sure as hell use one also regardless of displacement.Especially considering that honda ran a hydrostatic tranny in one of their CR's during an indoor supercross event in japan.It happened about a year before the rubicon was introduced. The CR was kicking out 3x more ponies then any atv they make and did just fine. Hydrostatic trannies are exspensive to manufacture and costly to repair.


On the subject of maxxis bighorns. I run probably 8 months out of the year in mud and snow.Two months after that waiting for everything to finally dry out which means 90% mud riding and the final 2 months riding in a mixture of gravel,granite and wet conditions.I find it hard to believe that you've ever tried bighorns and came to the conclusion that they are desert tires.

I've used the mudbugs exstensively and wore them out quickly because of the softer compounds used. Maxxis introduced the radial in the bighorns,with a tougher compound,plus the wider footprint caused by a radial. And they go anywhere. I called maxxis and talked to a tech about the desert bullsh!t and he said it was purely a marketing stance. They have Zillas and mudbugs for what they call soft terrain and bighorns for all terrain.The radial introduced in the new mudbugs could be interesting,the compounds will still be soft and wear fast.

As with any 4X4 debate, folks base everything they know on what they have. A desert racer is not good in snow, a rock climber is not good in Desert racing. High ground clearnce used for snow and mud has no benifit in rock climbing, or desert racing.

All of these are 4x4 "all terrain" designs. However most are built specific to an application of habitat that people live in or work with. For that reason deep cleated mud tires are far more a specific application then the more general designs like a Bighorn. I agree 100% that the deep cleated chevron design is far better in slogging through mud. But it's going to be less then desireable and probably uncomfortable in many others.

I'm not fortunate enough to have a single habitat or limited focus where I use mine. I will run into about everything you can use an ATV in. For that reason I chose the bighorns. Everyone has their own interests in bits and pieces for the ATV, jeep, gun, boat, archery etc etc. We all also have an opinion, this is just mine.

I don't think I've ever heard a stronger more wide spread positive opinion on any product as I have with the Bighorn ATV tires. To this point, I have never heard anyone use them on an ATV that has not been absolutely satisfied with them, for true "All Terrian" use. Not speaking just specific mud applications.

They probably change the way an ATV works by a greater margin then anything else that you can do to one. It's almost like a tracked vehicle with the front diff locked.

I used these on my Rokon Trail breaker as well. Same results, spectacular performance and they changed the way that machine worked as well.

For a true all Terrain use where great performance is possible in every sitaution I just don't see anything even close to these. Go to any ATV forum and read a review, or read the posts from people using them. These tires must the best all around ATV tire made today.

In case you hadn't noticed the rubicon and rincon are very different quads made for very different uses.The rincon is made for trail riding and is much more sporty,while the rubicon was designed as a workhorse.The hydrostatic transmission is much more suited for the workhorse role as further supported by CAT using them.To make a hydrostatic transmission to handle the extra power of the rincon,it would have to be bigger and heavier,which is not desirable on a sporty machine like the rincon.The rincon also has independent suspension which rides smoother,but is not as stable when carrying heavy loads.Try side hilling with a quad with independent suspension with a heavy load on the racks,and then do the same with a solid axle quad and you will see the difference in stability.You can have the best ride,or the most stability with a heavy load,but not both at the same time.



Have you ever ridden in muskeg?Do you even know what it is?To obtain traction in muskeg,you need long deep lugs like the mudbugs and gators provide.The more knobby tread patterns like the bighorn has,aren't much better in muskeg than factory tires.

This is a great thread .

I have owned a lot of toys in my life from street bikes to m/x bikes and one three wheeler.-You can get a 'bad' one w/ any manufacturer -the honda 200x three wheeler i had blew-up for no reason.Never sunk or anything like that- just started smoking like a freight train within 4 months ,used more oil than gas.

I had a new yamaha fz 1000r spin a rod bearing twice.

A friend of mine had a new [20ish K miles] toyota 4x4 w/a 22r motor blow up driving down the highway?!

I use to own a jet-ski rental business on the mississippi coast -if the rental machine didn't say yamaha on the side -keep a tool kit close by.

Anything w/ bombardier on the side --forget about it running more than a week w/out some major repair work.
NEVER EXPECT it to start -and you won't be let down ....

I'm going to give the yamaha 4x4's w/locking diff's a look -good info JJ-.
Just throwing this out there -I use to rent tractors to box blade yards and get driveways ready to pour.The rental place initially had 2 -2wd tractors then got a 4x4 w/locking diff -wow what a difference.
I bought a kubota 4x4 26hp model b/c you could push the throttle wide open and drag a huge load of dirt -6' box scaper- any wheel spin -bump the diff lock w/your heel and keep on truckin.

Also had a 4x4 toyo truck basic limited slip stock truck -got stuck very easily compared to a friends w/ lockers installed.
That truck [friends] went through and up places my truck couldn't dream of b/c of the locked axles -so i've seen what locking diffs on several applications will do.

In my mind being able to "ease" through a rough section of ground rather than have to -NAW- your way through would fit my style b/c easing through w/the axles locked would be much more quiet and safe.<-Talking about hunting.

Here's something i've pondered -i mostly predator hunt so hauling a huge elk out of the wilderness doesn't apply to me much.
A 2wd honda ex250 weighs 360lbs the new 420cc rancher 4x4 weighs 560lbs.
It makes me wonder if the little 250 wouldn't go about as well as the big 420 especially if you put a top knotch set of tires on the 250?
I think a man would be able to push a 360lb machine somewhat but a 560lb -??
ok ramble over-Mike

My first quad was a two wheel drive,but I soon learned that for deep mud,snow,and especially muskeg,a 4x4 is far superior.As far as pushing a quad,it doesn't work very well in any kind of mud or muskeg.Get a good 2000lb or 2500lb winch and you will be much happier.

Makes sense stub -my pondering goes against my preferred way of easing through a spot.

Tell me about quads and snow...

JJ says the locked axle makes a big difference -would all wheels pulling all the time outperform a limited slip type set-up by a considerable amount?
Also JJHack -you might make your grizzly ride a little too stiff when not loaded by changing the rear shocks out -just a thought.
Have you jacked up your pre-load?

get a HONDA and dont look back!

+1 except you need to slap some ITP MudLites on it and a Warn 2500 it'll getr done no questions asked!

Good Mud Tires are an absolute + to riding pretty much anywhere in Alaska, never heard of Big Horns but ITP MudLites and 589's are pretty popular up here, and I am gonna take a little guess and say that we probably just a hair harder on 4 wheelers than most guys in most states, its just a hunch!

Where snow is concerned,tires are very important.I find the gators,mudrunners and mud bugs do very well.In fact they do well in almost all conditions from mud to muskeg to drier dirt.Locking differentials do help with traction on snow and ice,but you need to unlock them to turn sharp or the quad tries to go straight instead of turning.I have ridden my Rubicon in over a foot of snow with 26" gators and I had no problems keeping up with the yamaha or polaris machines.I have towed many elk and moose across snow covered fields or trails with no problems.For use on steep icy hills,or very deep snow,chains provide by far the best traction whether you have a differential lock or not.I am not saying that a locking differential is not an advantage,because I would like to have one on my own machine,however,I have gotten by without one due to having good tires,and picking my trails more carefully.However,I am so pleased with my rubicon that I am not prepared to give up the hydrostatic transmission,and the incredible reliability that my quad has provided, just to have a locking differential.

Well said stubble and I am with you 100%, I am not sold on the reliability of anything except for Hondas, everything else made I have seen towed or towed myself. Like you in Alberta I imagine, we live on our machines and we ride them in terrain thats unimaginable sometimes just getting from point a to point b. Most of the time when they are really worked theres no trail at all, except for the one your laying thanks to a Stihl. Will never give up the reliability points my Hondas have earned for a locking , IFS anything. This is just my opinion, but its also my azz thats 20-30 miles in no mans land if the SOB wont start or run, thats where I base my loyalty.

It appears we agree on chainsaws as well.I use a Stihl 250 myself.

Ol Mike, My Honda 300 Fourtrax had a limited slip. It was not acceptable in snow and while having one front in the air and one on solid ground. that situation leaves you with 2WD The front in the air is spinning the one on hard ground is not moving and there you sit. This simply cannot happen with a front difflock. Sure playing with the front brake to prelaod the limited slip clutch sometimes works but not with enough frequency to claim it actually works. I think of the 100's of times this has happened I made the front lock up for a moment a couple times. Then the instant it starts to spin the brake stops the rotation, or you loosen the brake and the tire in the air spins again!


I've just ordered a set of 100lb springs which I will swap out when they get here. They are suppose to change the rear end to the same stiffness as a solid axle, yet it's still and IFS. I cannot understand why they built this work machine with soft "high speed" suspension. My guess is that is the way people want it. I prefer it to have a greater load capacity. Fortunately, the options are there to have either one.

I look forward to the progressive spring rate and additional 100lb capacity, without losing the IFS rear and all that Ground clearance.