Home Forums Gear Free Classifieds SCAMMER SPIKE tm

SCOPE: To ensure a buyer is fully protected from a fraudulent firearm sale, from a seller who has no selling history or is new to a forum.

STEP 1: Disclose to the seller you will purchase his item, and your FFL licensed agent will act as the escrow agent in the transfer of the funds. Tell the seller he will send the gun to the FFL agent / Escrow agent to ensure item is as described and once the buyer accepts, the FFL agent / Escrow agent will then release funds with a tracking number, and the firearm will not be transferred until the tracking number shows delivery of funds. Buyer needs to communicate to the seller that a FFL licensed person would never risk losing their FFL license through fraud, theft of their gun, over a transfer fee / Escrow agent fee on one simple gun purchase. An offense would include multiple Federal Felony crimes with mandatory jail time.

If the seller balks at this point, the buyer walks, and saves themselves from grief, because the above is a simple business transaction that protects parties, and if he will not allow you to protect yourself, then you saved time and money.

STEP 2: Depending on how good of a relationship the buyer has with his FFL agent, he could possibly perform the leg work for the agent in mailing funds, and acquiring the tracking number to save on costs from the FFL agent.

Example: Usage of cellular phone camera to take picture of USPS Money Order, and tracking number label on sealed envelope texted / emailed to agent before being mailed or whatever other way you both decide to be simple for proof you mailed funds.

STEP 3: Email a contract to the seller disclosing the steps above that will be taken, and listing the FFL agent as the escrow agent, and a link to an online government list showing the FFL’s location the gun will be mailed to, so he will be comfortable. Have seller agree to terms of sale by returning an “I AGREE” to the terms listed in the email.

STEP 4: Example contract to be emailed to Seller:

SALES CONTRACT

I, [ Name of Seller ], after having received in hand the amount of [ Spell out Dollar Amount “CAPITALIZED” DOLLARS, ($xxx.xxx) ], sell the below described items to [ Print Buyer’s Name ].

I agree to [Name of FFL Licensed agent ] acting as the escrow agent for the transfer of monies in this sales transaction. I will mail the items described to be purchased below, to the FFL agent’s address provided to me, [ Print FFL Address Here ] where the agent will accept or deny.

ITEM/S TO BE PURCHASED:

Model Number:

Serial Number:

MISC:


By stating “I AGREE”, WE, the SELLER and BUYER, accept the terms above.

SELLER: I AGREE

BUYER: I AGREE

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Conclusion: Obviously you are free to modify the above contract to fit your specific sale if needed. I just wanted to provide a base example for buyers to have for their use.

I have used the above process before and did the leg work for the FFL, and it went smooth.

IT DOES WORK.

Copy and paste the above in a new thread in all other gun forums online, and have them pin it at the top of classified sections, and this “SCAMMER SPIKE” through the heart of scammers will stop the fraud overnight. When communicating with the new seller, just send a link in your communication to the pinned article above in the forum you are in online, if they have it pinned in that forum, and tell him this is the process you will use, and let them read it. This process can also be used for those who purchase on Armslist or any other online venue.

If they are legit, they will have zero problems, because it will only build their credibility, and actually, it might be a good idea for both the seller and buyer to announce in the sale thread they are using the “SCAMMER SPIKE” in this sales transaction, so everyone online will become educated in the process.

Someone call Rick Bin or email him, and have him pin this here. Let's get some protection for you guys.

Nice....

A logical method to help all concerned.

Why would an FFL get into the middle of the sale, handling the money, therefore accepting the potential for all kinds of different issues without getting paid quite a bit extra for the service?

Why would the seller put out his money to ship his valuables without being paid up front?

Elk’s big into the ™ ...

Phucqk

Slayed it.

This.

Who, besides the buyer, would agree to such nonsense?

How about only sell to/buy from reputable members with a long history of integrity on the ‘Fire?




P

Just don’t buy or sell schit if you can’t afford to lose a couple hundo bucks if schit goes south.

Every legit seller started with a zero sales history, so if your advice is followed the door is shut, right?

No new member has a right to sell an item, right?

You didn't read the example did you? The FFL doesn't have to do anything if he understands the "simple" concept.

Really, it's real simple. Not difficult to understand at all.

Sure he does, it's just a matter of whether his item is worth the potential risk of not. If not for me, likely someone else will.
Personally, I generally take Pharm's approach.

I did make the mistake of reading this drivel and it is nothing like you represent. You clearly do not do transfers on a very regular basis.

You are asking the FFL to jump through a lot of hoops. As currently set up an FFL needs mere minutes to deal with transactions if he is trying to move people through the doors. Typical fees for a transfer vary widely, but are often $50 or more. Now ask him to deal with seller, hold money and deliver after receipt, and make a judgement on whether the gun is as advertised. All of which take far more time than the actual transfer paper.

Money issues, even related to firearms exchanges are civil matters and you would not get BATFE interested over a money squabble.

I think it is a ridiculous idea... the answer to the question no one should or would ask...

Who in their right mind would do a transaction only if this verbiage was part of the deal. It would require at least an hour for a lawyer to decide what it actually says.

The name of this is genuinely ugly. Then the fact it has to be explained at the end is even worse. It’s like a kindergartner naming their dog Killer and when asked why, it’s because he kills bugs (evil laugh ensues). It’s essentially just like forwarding emails / social media click bait, just to see how far they go. This is not going to catch on and their isn’t going to be an intro class to online forum transactions that has a 101 course for this.

If the contract is supposed to be solely as a point of deterrent, why not ask for a picture of said firearm (or ANY other item), upside down, facing at 11 o’clock, with a heart made of cold beers surrounding a sandwich, with your name, the date, forum handles, and a phrase of your choice on a white piece of paper in the bottom left corner?

Can’t get the photo? No deal. Boom - problem solved. Then this works with any object, not just firearms going to an FFL that has serial numbers, a ‘contract’, and escrow.

If you have a good relationship with your FFL, sure, talk to them and make it work. I once did an Armslist trade transaction and we got FFLs involved, each were smaller “on the side” type gigs. My hassle of the FFL cost me a night at Primanti’s getting him appetizers, supper, and a dessert as we watched a few ball games - but it didn’t require all this hoop jumping. (Point made - their time is worth something. And honestly, I doubt I saved anything over buying new after the dust all settled, with supper, multiple trips to the FFL, etc.)

If people did their research, were willing to speak to someone on the phone, etc. a lot of this could be avoided. Don’t be stupid, CYA, pay with a method that has protection, etc., etc.

Like I said, it’s real simple, and even a six grade child could complete a sale.

No sale takes place because the seller was a scammer EXAMPLE:

BUYER: Hi, I will buy your gun, but we will use my FFL as an escrow agent for funds being you have no history, just like is done with every real estate transaction. His FFL license proves he is legit, and he’d never risk his license over one simple transaction.

SELLER: Seller refuses, but most likely doesn’t even respond back being he was just stopped dead in his tracks, because it was a scam, and the buyer sensed it was and used this tactic to out him.

End of scam.

A Sale is completed EXAMPLE:

Seller agrees to FFL acting as the Escrow Agent for funds FLOWCHART:

1 - Buyer emails contract to Seller and FFL agent to alert FFL agent a transaction has started.

2 – Seller returns agreed email contract, and mails gun to FFL.

3 – Gun arrives at FFL, and FFL emails Buyer gun arrived and looks good.

4 – Buyer goes to Post Office > buys USPO MO > mails funds > sends email to seller and FFL agent with tracking number, and picture of MO and sealed envelope that was mailed.

5 – Seller emails buyer, and FFL agent he has received funds.

6 – Buyer goes to FFL, and gets his gun after completing paperwork just like is normally done.

Yeah, it’s real difficult isn’t it?

Now, please describe to me again about all of this extra “time” the FFL agent is overwhelmed with.

l got scammed earlier this year. I have two good friends with FFL's that would most likely do this IF, I were to ask them, BUT I would never ask them to do so. It is asking them to do too much for not much.
I am a grown man and can stand on my own feet. When I got scammed, it was MY own fault for not doing my homework before I did the deal. The scammer would be in jail if the police would do their job but that is another story.
I have done deals after that one, but did not take things at face value like I did on the bad deal.
I am not going to ask anyone to nor will I do a deal with a 3rd party and a contract.

No FFL I know wants to act as an escrow agent.
Few sellers want to ship without having received funds.
This overly complicates a simple process.
Hard pass.™

If I was selling and you ask me to go through all this, I'd tell you to pound sand. Doesn't mean I was scamming anyone, just a PITA to me.