Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Christ at the Campfire The new Creation Museum is awesome!

I believe the intent of my post was missed. For that I apologize. What I am trying to say is that if religion is injected into a scientific debate than the scientific community will say �intelligent design is not science and "cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents." a Long time before any judge gets to hear the case. The results will be. �The scientific community has successfully refuted intelligent design�s negative attacks on evolution" ID and the Creation Museum needs to be viewed as part of the scientific community beyond those who believe. This will not happen if religion is injected into the methodology. This will not happen if first amendment debates on religious grounds enter the mix. This will not happen if conspiracy theories about activist judges are invoked.

PS I agree with you on the topics of the first amendment and activist criminal judges.

. . . . . or something is lost in the minds of men who look for holes and errors in the word of God. Just maybe, the three men that visited Abraham in Genesis 18 were the three persons of the Godhead, and while God the Father stayed behind to speak with Abraham who bargained for Lot's deliverance, the other two -- the Word and the Holy Ghost, went to Sodom for an eye witness report.

You get the same type of thing in Genesis 11 with the tower of Babel. God says let US go down and confound their language. Arguably, God did not have to go down to Earth to do anything. He could have done it by divine decree from the third heaven, just as he did with creation. We are not talking about some puny, wimpy God here.

"The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good." (Prov 15:3)

Perhaps. However, the words of God should have no errors of contradictions or translation.

There are many references to Him being all knowing and I agree with them.

A well known contradiction in Genesis is found in the order God created the beasts and man:

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

So which is correct? I don't think it likely matters much except to illustrate the point that there may be errors.

or the number of beasts in the ark...

GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

One of the most obvious possible errors is the the number of stalls and horsemen Solomon owned:


KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

There were 40,000 horses and 4,000 chariots, and 12,000 horsemen. Looks to me like there were some spares in both the horse department and the men department. There may have been 10 horses per chariot, but it seems unlikely that they would have that many horses hooked up. Horses get injured in battles just like men do, so no doubt the king had covered that contingency and had lots of spare horses, and lots of spare men. But if you'd sooner poke holes in the Bible, you have a problem, not the word of God.

There is no problem with the order of the beasts and man. God made the beasts on day 5, the man on day 6, and he brought the beasts by on day 6 to see what Adam would name them. But in your theory, it took man millions of years to evolve and animals had long evolved, died and transmutated to other animals before man arrived, so there is another problem for you, but not the word of God.

Seven Pairs of clean beasts (the male and his female make a pair) and 2 pairs of unclean. Again, not a problem for the Bible -- a problem in the mind of a hole poker. You would sooner believe that God made a mistake in allowing men to corrupt the word of God than to believe what he said when he promised to preserve his word. That again is your problem, and certainly not the Lord's.

My Bible, which just happens to be a King James Bible as well, is perfect with no proven errors. And you haven't shown me one yet.

12,000 horsemen is very clear. Also, in KI1 it is very clear that there are 40,000 stalls of horses(not of chariots). This would mean that there would be at least 40,000 horses-more if they had multiple horses in each stall. However, in CH2 it says there are 4,000 stalls for horses and chariots. Now, if you include that there maybe stalls for chariots, how can this make sense. The other way around may have made some sense but if there are stalls for chariots, then there should be more stalls, not 36,000 less.

KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

In 1:25 the beasts are made then in 1:26 he makes man. very clear.

In 2:18-19 He decides Adam should not be alone-meaning there are no beasts. He makes the beasts then takes them to Adam to name. Also very clear. Are you saying these two verses are out of order?

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Here's one that SA did not mention:

What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?

scarlet - Matthew 27:28

purple John 19:2

BT,
I agree with you. I thought the passages were straight forward.

I was not familiar with that one. I'll have to look it up.

Maybe this one is clear enough?

KI2 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

CH2 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. KJV

Keep searching pilgrim.

Your journey ends and your answers are revealed by faith.

We are not discussing whether God may conceal things, but whether there may be mistakes made by the men who wrote and translated the books of the current Bible.

Or are you saying God may conceal the truth in the scriptures? I have trouble believing He would do this as there is enough temptation in life already.
What might he be concealing here:

KI2 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

CH2 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

I am going fishing with the kayak. So much for the science of creation....... Wish me luck. Looking for smallmouth.

In II Sam. David has 1,000 chariots, 700 horsemen, and 20,000 footmen.
In I Chron. David has 1,000 chariots, 7,000 horsemen, and 20,000 footmen.

1 Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

2 Chronicles 22:2 Forty and two years old [was] Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also [was] Athaliah the daughter of Omri.
2 Kings 8:26 Two and twenty years old [was] Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name [was] Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.

KI2 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.
CH2 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.



Mine seems less so...

Perfection is in the faith of the beholder, as says RickyD . . . . and the Lord.

As far as the ages of Ahaziah et al, there were two places to reign from -- the northern and the southern tribes. He reigned in one place before he reigned in the other -- ergo the divided kingdom.

These are too easy. Believe the Lord -- you won't go wrong!

If they are so easy, why don't you explain them?
Northern and Southerm tribes in Jerusalem? Strange the Bible does not say that he only reigned in the north/south? It specifically says he ruled 'Jerusalem'. If you read the rest of the chapters, you will see your explaination just doesn't fit.

Furthermore, Not only does II Chronicles contradict the information in II Kings, it even contradicts itself. For the author mentioned that Ahaziah took over from his father, Jehoram, who had just passed away - at the age of forty! (II Chronicles 21:20) Thus according to II Chronicles Ahaziah was two years older than his own father!

And the 7,000 horsemen vs 700 is because of the divided kingdom too?