Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats 280 ackley improved?

In my search fo a stainless steel rifle to hunt every thing from Elk to Antelope I was leaning toward a 7mm rem. mag. and while doing some reloading yesterday I can across the 280 Ackley improved. I'm going to run the numbers through some calulators today, but it looks like you get more engery and velocity with than the standard 280. While the 280 ia has less engery and velocity than the 7mag but also less recoil than the mag. Whats not to like about that? I like like the idea of more engery/velocity than the 280rem and less recoil than the 7rm. After spending 3 hours at the range yesterday with my 300 H&H less recoil is a good thing!

I did a search on Accurate Reloading and read most of the 131 post on the subject. I know some of them, Savage 99, hates the improved round and most of the guys who have a 280 improved love it. Soo... why get the 280 improved over a 7mm rm? If you had to do it over again would you build the 280ai or just buy a 7mag?

Also the way I under stand it you could have a standard 280 rem rechambered to 280 ai, right?

I think I read this some where, can't you still shoot factory ammo in it? Say like if you got out west and the airlines lost our handloads. Couldn't I just buy some 280rem loads and shoot them?

I also read some where that a company was selling 280ai brass? I'm not sure the guy who posted it listed the company name. If so I didn't write it down. I do recall him saying you had to send them a round fired in you gun and then they would match it from there. Anybody know the company name and the cost of the brass?

The 280AI is a kick-ass cartridge. It's got it all and remains friendly and them is good things.

You tread fairly close to 7mmRemmag performance and keep an extry poke in the belly. Neither earth shattering,but neither a step backwards either.

It would take some doing to find someone that loves the 7mmRemmag more than I. It is fabulous when fed properly and it has always rewarded me for those efforts. Soooo,I can't/won't cuss it,as it is too good across the board and has done me right too many times.

The 280AI shares those attributes,but does it with less powder and recoil and one could argue that it is the Perfect Seven.

I think it is a wickedly wonderful round,that is a Giant Killer and in typical 7mm fashion it just begs to be superbly accurate.

With a properly headspaced 280AI chamber,one can certainly utilize Factory 280 fodder to yield Improved hulls,with every yank of the trigger. There are folks that offer formed cases,as you mention,but I'd prefer to form my own brass in my own rifle,but that's me.

A pard punched his S/S 700 Mountain Rifle in 280,out to 280AI and tucked it in a black/grey swirled McMillan Mountain Rifle patterned stock of light fill and it is a damned fabulous rifle,that brings it all to the table.

Now to stir the pot,you can mimic that performance ala 7SAUM or eclipse it with a 7WSM. My S/S Model Seven based 7SAUM is certainly a slice of heaven and I haven't a bitch one in it's regard.

Hard not to like .284" projectiles,that are launched from hulls with those capacitiesy(7SAUM-7mmRemMag). Any of the lot in an accurate rifle would tickle me and would be a grand choice for most everything.

I'm sure none of that helped you,but I'm sweet on 7's in general and the 280AI is high on the list......................

"I'm sure none of that helped you"

Thanks Big Stick for adding more fuel to the fire, now if only someone would fan the flames. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Big Stick, what rate of twist would you recommend in the 280ai for 120gr to 160gr bullets with a 24" barrel?

My trouble is I have the 7mm Bug pretty thoroughly,so I can't tell someone with a straight face that "this one is great and this one sucks",because they is all good as a minimum.

In my mind,the merits of the 280AI are best extolled in a lightish-weight/handy utility rifle. Sorta an "all arounder".

I'm gonna build a lightweight 280AI upon a S/S SUCKS(likely a PacNor #1 contour,23" long) and nestle it within a McMillan Mountain Rifle pattern and do the alloy Talley's and 6x42mm thing.

A guy can't have too many Sevens and the 280AI is certainly a Good 'Un.............................

1-9" is a very forgiving 7mm twist rate...................

mark6.6x55
280 Ackley is one fine caliber. The only draw-back is fireforming. I build several a year and everyone likes them. A Sucks action with a light weight barrel make a fine all-around piece. 140 grain Ballistic Tips for deer sized critters and 160 Partitions or A-Frames and you are ready for most everything in North America and a whole mess of plains game. Reloader 22 seems to work well with most bullets, but there are several powders that will do the job. There is some feller here named "Dogzapper" who has fired a round or two with a 280 Ackley. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Charlie

Thanks Stick and Charlie, now we've got this fire going. Pull up a chair and help yourself to some marshmallows.

I've spent this morning reading all I can find on the .280AI and fireforming seems to be the only draw-back I've read. You got an idea about case life? If you fireformed 100 rounds, which sounds like range time to me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, and you could get 6 or 8 firings from each then thats 600 to 800 rounds. That'd last me a long time.

As to building this thing. I want to keep the total weight down to 8 pounds or a little less. I want a 24" barrel and fluted would be nice. I guess I'll use Talley rings, a Leupold 2.5-8x36 scope and a Bansner stock, painted by Rick.
What do you think as for as actions? I like Winchesters, but I know they are heavy. How about a Weatherby Vanguard action? I personal like it better than a Remington. How about the new MRC 99 action? Would the Vanguard make it easer to stay at or a little under 8 pounds?

Mark,
If you have access to past Varmint Hunter magazines, you may want to read up on the excellent 280AI articles by Dogzapper. I've never worked with one but being a 7mm fan I know I'm missing out on what is probably one of the finest of the "improved clan." I would seriously consider a C/M Remington 700 action, far better stock offerings from the various stockmakers(especially McMillan) If I were to build one today, it would be pretty close to Dogzappers specs: Rem 700, McMillan Classic and a 24" #3 or #2 SS bbl in a 10 twist. I would use Stick's choice of optics and mounts and have the action/recoil lug parkerized and then the entire barreled assy done up in matte black GunKote. A Shilen or RifleBasix trigger would round out the package. MtnHtr

Mark6.5x55
I would recommend a Remington 700 action. They are about the lightest action readily available. I wont use a Wby Vanguard because they have metric threads and its a lot of work to set up for metric then back for standard.
Charlie

OK, my two cents. I don't see the appeal of the 280 AI. I own a .280. It's my second. I've owned two 7 mm Rem Mags. Not a whole lot more in the Magnum - you are talking 25 yds. more Point Blank Range, and very small decreases in wind drift, and no discernable improvement in killing power.
I've killed all sorts of stuff from 25 - 500 yds. with both. And the 7X57. Any real differences I ever saw were in the quality of the bullets. There is the big difference.
Oh, I forgot recoil and blast. A noticable difference between the 7mm Mag and the .280. Not alot, but some. To me, the .280 is nicer to shoot and just a deadly. Yeah, I know all about paper performance. But after lots of big, dead critters, I haven't noticed a difference. Unless I change bullets. No case forming for me. Just extra work. E

Mark:

When you go from a standard 280 to a 7 Rmag, you gain about 150-175 fps with most bullet weights. The AI falls somewhere between the two. If 75-90 fps are worth the trouble to you, go for it!! Keep in mind that the resale value of a rifle in an improved cartridge is generally far less than a standard cartridge.

Oftentimes someone will "prove" a point about the performance superiority of their own AI cartridges with anecdotal evidence. ("My AI shoots faster than a mag. with less kick") The reality seems to be that AI's deliver about 2% more velocity than a std round in equal barrels with equal pressures.

You can get the same velocity from a 7 Rem, with less pressure, longer case life, good resale value, and equal recoil and noise all by going one notch faster in powder, and drop the pressure a tad.

Say for example that you have your heart set on a 160 NP @ 2950 from a 24" barrel. (great load BTW) here is data from Nosler #5 (presumably pretty similar pressures.

280 Rem 58.5/7828/2942 (26" barrel) Max load ((probably not going to hit 2950 in a 24" in a std 280))
280 AI 60.0/7828/2962 (24" barrel) Max load
7 RemM 59.5/RL-19/2973 (24" barrel) 2 gr. under max

Of course you can slice and dice loading data about any way you want to, but the newer manuals are pretty objective. It's easier to justify an AI by simply deciding that you "want one" than by any objective process.

JimF

Yup, I've fired a round or two of .280 Ackley. Even managed to somehow kill a few furry things with it, too.

Fabulous cartridge. Suggerst you might be further tempted by reading my scribblings in the January 2002 Issue of Varmint Hunter Magazine.

I usually shoot 120- and 140-grain Ballistic Tips. The 120s @ 3370 fps are flat shooting and knock over antelope and big mule deer like steel silhouettes. I killed one Alberta moose with the 120s (I was hunting whitetails) and he kit the ground so fast that they measured it as 7.6 on the Richter Scale in Edmonton. Very little meat damage with this bullet and it would leave the Ballistics-Bashers scratching their heads (if they ever quit whining about BTs long enough to actually try it).

The 140-grain Ballistic leaves the muzzle at 3170 fps and is lovely on elk and big mule deer. Kinda an all-around bullet.

The data in Nosler #5 is the best collection of .280 Ackley loads available. Don't pay any attention to the data in Nosler #4 (dunno what they were shooting, but it is weird data).

You can probably tell by now that I am into killing and not into armchair theoretical musings. (No tactical stuff, target knobs and useless bullshit things on my killing tools). The .280 Ackley is worth your effort.

Steve "Dogzapper" Timm

dogzapper
I to "LOVE" ballistic tips. Have used them since they came out
with complete satisfaction. I would argue that they are the most
accurate bullet made other than maybe sierra's. Their performance
on game is spectacular. It's hard to argue with accurate performance.
Raghorn

dogzapper, just curious about your thoughts on the two nosler loading manuals, can you go into a little more depth on your observations, thanks,ackleyfan

as long as we are looking for close to 3000 in a 160 lets not forget the 284!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> if you dont have the gun yet a 7mm-08 rechamber works well. 700 mountain in a 22". those make nice lightweights. or the TI in 7mm-08/284.... or a standard bdl w/24" tube. i like the 284 if you cant tell......
woofer

There's a new cartridge out that might fill your needs without fire-forming. The 7mm Remington SAUM is essentially the .280 AI in a short case. On average it maybe has a grain or two more case capacity, depending on brass used in the .280. I have been shooting one now for a while, a brand new SUCKS S/S with 24" barrel, and it is indeed a midget .280 AI.

The only factory I've tried is the 140 Ultra Core-Lokt, which gets just what's advertised, over 3150. It groups into well under an inch, and has knocked the snot out of 4 deer and a barbeqcue pig so far. Have just started handloading, but so far it appears this one will sit up and do tricks. Look up the data in the newest Nosler manual and see what I mean.

Great cartridge!!! Fireforming is no big deal. Fireform during barrel break-in and fouling shots for load development. I have a batch of cases that I am currently using that are going on 23 firings. Anneal every 5 firings or so, and they'll last a long time. I get 3150-3200 easily with a 140gr out of a 24" barrel, and 2875-2925 fps with 160's. Essentially a 7 Mag, using a little less powder. Both excellent cartridges, but the 280AI gets my vote. 1:9 twist is my preference.

ACKLEY

You can probably tell by now that I am into killing and not into armchair theoretical musings. (No tactical stuff, target knobs and useless bullshit things on my killing tools). The .280 Ackley is worth your effort.


I LOVE IT!!!!

"The data in Nosler #5 is the best collection of .280 Ackley loads available. Don't pay any attention to the data in Nosler #4 (dunno what they were shooting, but it is weird data)."

Thanks for the heads up dogzapper. I ordered the #5 Manual last night.

After giving it some thought, I'm still a Winchester guy at heart and if I'm going to built a rifle it mite as well be on a action I like. I did some looking around last night and I can pick a push feed Winchester for around $300 or a stainless classic for $525. I leaning toward the push feed to keep the cost down. I think I can build a 8 pound Winchester and still have a 24" barrel. I brought a Winchester classic lt sporter (24" barrel, Rimrock stock, Warne rings, 3.5-10x40 Leupold) to work with me today so I can get one of lab guys to weigh it. I don"t think its much over 8 pounds, we'll see. I know the Bansner stock is lighter than the Rimrock, 4 oz+/-, the Talley Light Weight One-Piece Aluminum Scope Mounts are lighter than the Warnes and the 2.5-8x36 Leupold is lighter than the 3.5-10x40. But again I'll get it weighed today and we'll see.

One the other hand being cheap a ba#$@%d I wouldn't pass up a smoking deal on one somebody was selling <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Even if it was a Sucks rifle. Wellllllll it'd have to be one hellva deal mind you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />