Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers 444 Marlin Rifle Production

Now that Ruger has Marlin do you think they will reintroduce the 444 Marlin in at least one model if not two? Winchester opted to dump the 444 Marlin and the 94AE Big Bore series and now has sluggish sales in their 450 Marlin Takedown Short Rifle. Do you think a compact takedown or no takedown in 444 Marlin would be a better seller for Winchester?

Personally I believe the 444 Marlin is a valuable cartridge in the field. For NA hunting it can be loaded for a wide variety of game from 200 gr to 355 gr (405 Cast GC are offered and will perform at around 1,750 fps, but rifle twist, gate feed alteration and possible neck turning are typically needed). .430 gr bullets are offered in jacketed HP, jacketed SP, Barnes Solids, Woodleigh SP and a full realm of Cast Bullet GC weights.

I think it’s a shame that this potent, easy to reload and easy to cycle cartridge is not supported well. It’s always compared constantly to the 45-70 Gov. and I think that’s why Winchester opted for the 450 Marlin as a way to sell a .458 that would compete with Marlin’s 1895 45-70. Now Henry has the 45-70 chambered in their Big Boy too. In my way of thinking the 444 Marlin offers more versatility and more pleasure to shoot on a wide variety of game. No it doesn’t offer the upper end performance of the 45-70 Gov., but it does offer enough to dispatch pretty much the same game in the field if loaded correctly matching bullet to game. I always look at the comparison of the two as choosing a .416 vs a .458 turn bolt gun, both are killers and both serve in the field for a Hunter, but as a Guide you’d probably opt for the larger frontal area as a stopper under duress. At distances of 200-275 yds with scoped rifle using a 225gr and 240 gr HP bullets/loads the 444 Marlin is an energy dumper on game in the 300 lbs class making it very pleasant and accurate to shoot at distances and very deadly on game.

What say the Big Bore Lever Shooters, should Marlin, Winchester and even Henry support new production of the 444 Marlin? Is it worth saving, I sure think so.

Remington brought back the T4 before they went under and IMO their change from Microgroove to Ballard rifling improved the accuracy and versatility of the cartridge. If Ruger got all the CNC machines in the Marlin purchase I see no reason why they wouldn't continue building the T4.

I have a 68 JM straight stocked T4 and a 2 newer Remlin 45-70's. I really like both cartridges.

Winchesters Timber short barrel ported T4 wasn't popular I'd guess due of the barrel configuration. I have a friend who's wife bought one for him years ago. I've shot it and it's a LOUD beast compared to my Marlin. It's not as accurate either. If they did bring it back I doubt many people would pay $1500+ for one which is the average price of Winchester's (Miroku) levers these days.

Not sure about Henry introducing a T4. They've already got to many calibers and configurations now.

At $1,200.00 & $1,400.00 for the new Winchester .450 Marlins I have to admit they are out of my price range for a hunting levergun.
I have a Winchester .444 Timber carbine with a 2.5x Weaver- 5 minute Lee Dot and it is a fine rifle in the thick brush. I have killed many deer with it. It IS LOUD.

FWIW Pedersoli list some of their 86/71 range as being available in 444. They list a few different options.

https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/sc...model-86-71-lever-action-boarbuster.html

The other point is that you’ll likely be able to exceed the LOA as those actions generally can cycle a longer cartridge, up to 2.80” in length. I’d imagine to utilise the longer LOA you’d need to use a bore riding cast design or open up the throat.

Tried to get excited, but just couldn't!

Could you list the benefits/features over a Marlin .45-70...

Mmmm, ,
my .Winchester 1895 405 WCF works great for me with loads from 210 to 400 grains. It nicely fills the gap between my 1892 .357 Mag and my 1886 .45-90 (.458 2.4) . Fortunately, my 45-90 also loads and shoots 45-70 ammo so there is always a wide variety of commercial ammo available.

Nothing against the Henry or Marlin, just did not work out for me. I wish them both the best.

I suppose it would depend on intended use, bullet selection and loading. For general purpose hunting anywhere in North America the 444 Marlin is capable of dropping the same game at 200 yards as the 45-70 when loaded properly. What is it that you typically hunt whereby the 444 Marlin would fall well short? One benefit of the 444 is greatly reduced recoil on a cartridge that puts the same game down on the ground. 444 Marlin recoil with light to heavy loads in a 7 lbs rifle on average is around 27 ft-lbs - 37 ft-lbs, the 45-70 light to heavy would run 33 ft-lbs to 48 ft-lbs. When killing the same game animal in a hunting situation I see no need in taking it at the opposite end when it’s not needed. For raw power or guide use when loading 430-500 gr as a stopper the 45-70 would be of greater benefit for sure. Question would be how many are in that situation every day. For everyday hunting the 444 Marlin is hard to beat regarding a slick operating lever action with big power and low recoil. For a lever action called to duty as a stopper for guide work the 45-70 is better in that role than the 444 Marlin, however better dedicated lever stoppers on a Marlin 1895 platform would be the 50 Alaskan or 50 B&M Alaskan if that is the intended use of the gun 80% of the time in the field. The 45-70 has it all over the 444 Marlin hands down when it comes to factory and aftermarket loadings, which is a great plus. The 444 Marlin is a dedicated hand loaders cartridge for sure, which makes it plenty versatile for field use. The 45-70 is a fine cartridge, there’s no disputing that, but then again so is the 444 Marlin.

This article will answer your question - https://www.handloadermagazine.com/444-marlin

The 45-70 is a hell of a cartridge, so too is the 444.

THIS

I had a .444, but it was a 1/38 twist and wouldn't stabilize 300 grain bullets.

With a 1/20 twist and the ability to use heavy hard cast LBT bullets, the .444 becomes a whole 'nother beast.

This is what my Marlin can do with 325gr har cast...

5 danged shots and nothing near the bull... might as well sell it while it’s worth something

Is that the new .45-70 or a .444?

If a 1/38 .444, hang on to it, my .444 would show signs of keyholing with that heavy of a bullet. The .45-70 has proven accurate up to 540 grains, the heaviest I've tried.

That's a good shooting rifle you have there!

Thanks for the article.

Seems to me there are some similarities in a .444 able to use *heavier* pistol bullets in the rifle like you can with a .44 magnum in a revolver and in a rifle for that caliber such as the "94". Impression is one can get high velocity at a decent recoil response.

Don't see the benefit of the .444 as I don't shoot jacketed out of my .45-70s or any large bores at high velocity...only solids 330gr-380gr (1700-1800fps) and cast from 405-420gr at 1200-1600fps. Recoil at these loadings are within my "comfort" level. Option to go even heavier of course.

Am sure the .444s are fun to shoot, but I don't see the benefit of acquiring them.

You nailed my opinion as well.

I don't load my 45/70 to thump on my end. 300g going 1400 fps hammers deer at the ranges I shoot them with little bloodshot meat.

I would look at it if I didn't already have the 45/70 though, as I would be able to use my 44mag components and consolidate stuff a little.

SIX....

Yup... it’s broke... Might as well get it gone before it infects your other rifles

I have two JM T4s with the micro groove barrels. Both of mine will shoot 300 grain bullets into an inch and a half @ 100 if I do my part. IMO the 444 is a better cartridge than the 45/70. Shoots a little flatter with all bullet weights and a little less recoil. Sure hope Ruger continues to make them.

I don’t have a 45-70 to compare with but this years buck went zero yards with my T4 , hard to get deader quicker .

My old 1970 triple 4

I bought a 444 Marlin around 83, pre-hammer block. It was accurate with both factory Rem offerings (240gr & 265gr iirc). Grouped about an inch at 100 yds, trigger was excellent. Mounted a small Bushnell and killed a buck with it. Kicked pretty hard or maybe I was too young?


Later I sold it due to my brother telling me it's a rifle shooting pistol bullets and that's not good???

No offense to you or your brother but that advice regarding only pistol bullets doesn’t really tell the story regarding 444 Marlin performance. True there are 44 Mag designed bullets that shoot well in the 444 Marlin, many discount their effects, but a 225-250 JHP at 2,400 fps-2,500 fps dumps massive expansion, energy and wounding on big bodied animals in the 400 lbs class. That is only the beginning as there are many .430” JFP bullets from 265 gr- 300 gr made by Sierra, Speer, Hornady and Woodleigh. Barnes makes a solid FP 300 gr bullet (Buster), which is a bone crusher that I load at 2,000 fps. Then there are 20+ Keith style HC bullets from 200 gr - 400 gr. I load 290 gr and 335 gr. I still have 50 rounds of the old 280 gr CorBon FPX that clocks at 2,250 fps. Have killed two elk with that load and it was impressive. Many comment on not having the power for big bears, I for one would not hesitate to shoot that 280 gr CorBon load on a big bear and back it up with the 300 grain Barnes Solid at 2,000 fps or the RimRock 335 HC at 2,100 fps. No bear is going to survive the penetration and wounding of well placed hits from those big projectiles out of a fast handling lever gun under field hunting conditions. I always have to chuckle when the 444 Marlin is demoted to some lowly platform from many who have never loaded for it and can’t appreciate the various levels of performance it can be dialed in for. Like always the only thing that matters in bullet performance is matching the bullet to the intended game and the 444 Marlin does that very well. Best Wishes.

my micro groove 444 loved the 240 gr Remington i could touch bullets at 100 yards with ease but i discovered the hornady 265gr fp just takes deer down alot better and while they don't touch stil a nice tight group

For what ever reasons the 444 fell short on sales in the past. Manufacturers are aware of this. There is no reason to believe it will do better now. Would you invest money out of your pocket for the reintroduction of the 444. Maybe $4 or $500,000 of your money on a maybe gamble where you stand to lose it all f it doesn't sell. This is what a company is looking at.

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/44-240gr-handgun-solid

Over some 4198

Pretty formidable...even to big bears

Lehigh's 265gn copper solid...less cost., more weight. I use plenty of 4198, but RL-7, 5744 or 2400...less recoil.

Ross,

No offense taken but keep in mind I owned and sold the Marlin 444 back in the early 80s. Reloading supplies were limited to local gun shops mostly back then and old style mail. Doubt many of the options you listed weren't even available? CorBon wasn't. I never loaded for the 444 just used the Remington factory ammo available back then, it did punch a nice hole in that buck. .

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. Maybe not right away, but the 444 was being produced all the way up to shut down.
Maybe not to the modern audience, but the 1895 444 is to marlin what the 30WCF is to the 94, a class defining caliber. Unfortunately the 45-70 came back and took market share.

I had both, but still have the 444. I may get rid of it now that Hornady had discontinued the 265 gr. FP. It was a nice cartridge, but obviously this is a minority opinion or everything about and for it would be chugging along.

Didn't hear that Hornady Discontinued to the 265gr. What alternatives are out there?

I suppose the Speer 270 gr. might make a good substitute, but I've never tried it.

It may be the Best bullet for the .444 Marlin.
Works well in the Winchester.
I believe it puts deer and pigs down quicker than the 310 grain Lee bullet and it does a pretty good job.

Looks like 6 shots to me, but I agree. I'd sell it to someone who can hit the orange dot.. I have experience in that department...

I've had a 450 Marlin and a few 45-70 Marlins but never a 444. I would like to get one though

In a tube feed lever I don’t think you could find a more powerful, comfortable, versatile shooter. Throwing 200gr-405gr loads with JHP, JFP, Barnes Solid Buster, custom Woodleigh and Hawk FP and boodles of Keith style Gas Check Cast bullets. Many always said the 444 Marlin was handicapped by 44 Mag Bullets, I say it was always a big plus especially with today’s bullet technology and powders available. In the end there is not much a 444 Marlin can’t tackle in the field when matching bullet to game.

mine has a 1 in 38 twist, a 1980 manufactured gun....most common bullet weight I have used in the field is the 300 gr XTP bullet at about 1850 fps...

After buying that 444 long ago, a buddy bought a 45/70 Marlin just to have something bigger than mine...

He was always wanting me to shoot his, so I would buy the 45/70 version....

I did shoot it often in our Northern MN and Wisc hunts.... but for deer hunting it never gave me any thing more than the 444 did...

bought my Marlin 444 for $219 back in those days.... its always done anything I could ever expect out of it..

heaviest deer I've ever shot weighed about 265lbs field cleaned, that was in Northern MN....and was taken down in one shot by that 444.... on a 30 below zero day.

That 1980s hair cut is certainly a blast from the past.....if nothing else....takes one back to happier times...

Several times I've let kids, up to the age of 20 use my 444 when we took them hunting for their first time...

have used them loaded to just a 1000 fps, with 180, 200 and 225 gr XTP bullets, when hunting just south of International Falls MN...

Swamp hunting, in real cold temps... recoil was literally minimum.... but within 100 yds, which was long distance in those Northern Swamps, those "pistol" bullets
always worked without a hiccup.... bang / flop....equal to a 44 Rem Mag load...

redlining those pistol XTP bullets or Remington and Hornady's 240 and 265 grain bullets, were just the same.... drop the velocity down to 1800 FPS or so,
ya reduced recoil 40 % or more... those bullets were like shooting parachute laden pingpong balls...no aerodynamics... you gave up 10 to 15 yds of point blank range and improved the accuracy for most shooters...

after shooting those lighter loads, and their results of bang/flop, each one instantly wanted to go buy a 444.... the ones that figure a 45/70 would be even better, with my buddy Keith's recommendation, and bought one... sold them because they thought it kicked too much... not so with the ones who bought the 444...

I think the 45/70 and 444 are much like the modern 44 R.E.M. Mag and 45 LC. Not much difference.

But the 45 is more versatile on heavier loads, the 444 on lighter loads.

The elephant in the room is the seemingly non issue or non impact the 450 marlin had on the debate.

Nothing wrong in terms of performance with the 450 Marlin. It’s popularity is muted by many who disdain its appearance (the belt), which has nothing to do with it firing a 400 gr. projectile at just shy of 2,000 fps. It holds about 5 grains less water than the 45-70, but is SAAMI loaded to higher pressure than the 45-70. Folks that push the 45-70 into hot at 42K-44K CUP where both Marlin cartridges operate put a great deal more stress on their bolts from Bolt Thrust by virtue of the 45-70s larger internal/external case head area. Eventually repeated hot loads at those pressures will degrade a Marlin or a Winchester lever gun. So you see the 45-70 reaching higher velocities but there is a cost to that performance on lever gun internals.

If you read most of Turnbull’s load developments and recommendations you’ll see he never exceeds 40K CUP and recommends staying about 38K CUP on 1886s with 45-70 and his 470 and 475 Turnbull loadings.

The 450 Marlin’s belt is less essential for worrying about chambering in bolt guns, etc., it is however pivotal regarding having a slightly tapered straight wall and needing something to headspace on. There is not a hill of beans difference in power and hunting game under field conditions between it and a 45-70. Unfortunately Hornady and Marlin both turned their backs on brass and rifle promotion. If you hand load the 450 Marlin you get versatility and a very potent lever gun same as the 458x2 American.

.450 Marlin came along at the wrong time.
Marlin was riding high with many different firearms and USRA Winchester was folding in on itself.
Where the .450 shines is adding serious power to the Model 94 Winchester.
The problem is the standard Model 94 in .450 Marlin has a retail price of $1,200.00. I am not saying the rifle is not worth the price. I am saying it is a bit more than I want to pay.

I have a .356 Winchester and it is a wonderful hunting rifle. It was not cheap when I bought it but it did not have the same impact as the current price for the .450 Winchester..

Great article Ghostman. Thanks!!

I am a 444 fan with eight Marlin 444s and one Winchester BigBore in 444.I have a couple 45-70s too but, I consider the 444 to be a superior, all-around cartridge. And, very easy to load from mild to wild.

T.S.

I want a 444p style rifle with Ballard rifling!