Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game 5.56 for Big game

Can’t speak for elk with the 223 or 45-70 but I can speak for whitetails. Having shot a couple dozen with both the 223ai and the 45-70, I’d gladly take the 223 within any reasonable distance. The 223 with the 64 nosler bonded, 62 grain fusion, and 75 Amax did considerable more internal damage than the 45-70 with 300 grain jacketed hollow points. The entrance with the 45-70 always left a larger hole obviously but the 223 exits were always as big or bigger than the 45-70. Deer ran less with the 223 with lung shots. The only thing the 45-70 did the 223 didn’t was kick a lot more and always passed through. The 223 shot way flatter and deer ran much less. Both worked well but the 223 on deer worked better in my opinion. The 55ttsx made wounds like the 45-70 but a few never exited.

I’ll stick with my 7-08 or 300 win mag for elk, they’ve both worked flawlessly in the past on my couple of elk. Although I’m sure the 45-70 and the 223 would have killed them both as well

I used the example of elk to demonstrate the greater penetration capability of the 45-70. It was not about elk specifically.

Once the sear breaks the shooter has no control. Animal movement and wind are just two factors that can change an otherwise good shot into something else. There are no guarantees.



The one 45-70 bullet I've recovered expanded to .80" average and .98" maximum. Are you suggesting a .bullet fired from a .223 will do that? My frontal area math is fine.



The ability to break heavy bones and the ability to penetrate both depend on the same factors - the amount of energy and momentum transferred to the target and the time and manner in which that transfer occurs. A bullet cannot transfer energy or momentum it doesn't possess.



Use any bullets you like, I'll still take my .45-70 over a .223 for the mulies we have around here, and especially for elk and larger. (The OP's question was about "big game", not just deer.) For smaller deer and antelope it wouldn't be as much of a concern. As I've stated before, most of the elk I've taken probably would have fallen to my .22-250. It is the "probably" that makes me feel more comfortable with heavier, fatter bullets.

YMMV

I read many historical diaries and articles. Twice I read when the NEW 30WCF cartridge arrived on the scene the old 45-70's were put out to pasture. They said with the new 30-30 it was easier to hit at extended distances, was lighter in weight, and killed moose and bear far faster with less tracking than the old 45-70, because of its higher velocity.

A .223 is not in the same league with a .30-30..

So true, was just relating experiences of hunters that have used both high velocity and lower velocity cartridges. The higher velocity loads often do considerable more damage than the lower velocity. The above posts were comparing the 45-70 to the 223 and others voiced my point. Have only shot 2 mule deer with the 45-70 and both died but little damage. The same bullet placement by a high power cartridge created huge damage.

The beautiful part of this whole discussion is everyone wins. With ammunition and components being hard to come by I’m sure those who use 223’s are happy not to have anymore competition for components or ammo. I know from killing lots and lots of deer with 223’s 223AI and 22-250AI they do not need to be defended. I don’t care to try and convince someone to use a 223 just like I won’t spend any time trying to tell someone they’re over cooking their steak when cooked past medium rare.....grin. Carry on and use what you wish.

I've never caught a 223 bullet in a deer. I've seen one make it to the off-side hide and not exit, but all of the deer I have shot at various angles and nearly all I have seen shot at various angles using a 223, the bullet has exited and the animal has been down at less than 10 steps. This is not true in my experience with a 30-30. Regarding deer from small meat deer to big mature bucks, 223s have been FAR MORE DECISIVE than 30-30s.

So I am curious what you mean by that statement. I agree with it, but likely not for the reasons you wrote it.

Hunt, I have followed you posts quite often, and found good information.. But I can't agree with the .223 on game.. I have done it but to me it is stunt shooting.. I would not carry one if I were seriously hunting for a large deer.. I just think too many things can go wrong especially with someone on limited time or limited experience.. I also dislike the lack of a good blood trail when using smaller calibers.. Most of my hunting is in open country and I can see what happens to the game after the shot, so locating it is usually not difficult.. But given any type of cover, I just feel too many things can go wrong.. Obviously you experience on game with the .223 has been very good.. Anytime I shoot deer size game with a ,22 caliber, I always have the feeling I hope this goes right.. I have never lost any game I shot with the various .22 calibers, I always have a lack of faith.. I haven't looked for a while, but I suppose I have shot near 80 head of deer sized game with these calibers.. To me I think their use on game by the average hunter is a good idea..

I meant to say NOT a good idea.. Sorry...

I caught a 69 grain Sierra out of a 223 used to kill a doe antelope. Bullet entered last rib as she was running away and was found in the lung cavity. Picture perfect expansion. Could have been used in an advertisement. I used a 222 Rem a lot over the years, before premium bullets were available. I killed a few antelope and deer with it and found it wanting. Killed quite a few coyotes with it and found it wanting on them as well. I feel that with the current crop of hunting bullets , not the varmint bullets available then, that I could have had better success.

Barnes TSX bullets punch way above their caliber. I would no hesitate to hunt a 223 with them at reasonable ranges and circumstances.

I've shot a lot with 223. And quite a bit of game too. With a fair amount of differing but usually heavier bullets. Antying 50 or over in a copper is going to do as fine as say a 65 and heavier in cup and core.

I've killed deer out to almost 600 yards easily with the 223. No hesitation on my part.

I"d tackle about anything with a 223 but I'd know my limits.

Simple as that.

And fwiw I've yet to see anything walk away from a 223 with one of our bulk match practice loads with 75 bthp in the mag. Much less 69smks.

600 yards? I guess if you say so..

What exactly are you trying to accomplish by being a contrarian?

Have you ever shot anything with a 77gr tmk? Or an eld?

And if so, what made you think it wasn’t enough when you saw the wound track??

They bang flop Wyoming game. 8 this year.

Hopping over into SoDak it’s more of the same. 4 more bucks and an antelope.

Keep ur 45-70, I’ll keep my 26gr of powder bang flops.

Scored some 77 TMK

Still doe season for a couple days

I appreciate all the replies so far

I only shot two big game critters this year due to taking a transfer to a new state, but took both with a .223 Rem and the only Barnes bullet I have used that I can endorse....the 62 TSX.
An average 4x4 mule deer and a relatively young antelope buck. Both were 100-125 yards away.
No complaints in performance, whatsoever.

This has definitely been my experience too, having killed deer with both rounds in question. My only question, because I haven’t personally done it, is if a mono in 223 would cause less meat damage.

Mm

Those two phrases seem to contradict each other. What am I missing?

Nuh unh.