Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters FInn Aagaard on the 7mm BR

Article on the 7mm BR by Finn A. in 1992. Read the last paragraph.

This inspired a custom Rem M7 build years ago, 21" Pac-Nor 9 twist. I ran 120 @ 2878mv, 130 @ 2666, and 139 @ 2544. I had my best speed and accuracy with 120-139 over AA2015BR, and IMR4895, though H335 and BL-C was used with 100-110s with good results.

MY rifle shot 1/2 MOA at 200 yds......easy to make brass using 6mm BR Lapua, which is better than RP brass.

Trajectory and ballistics in my experience, show a 120 i.e. BT is probably good for 400 yds on deer with shot placement, 120 V-max and 110 TNT were very accurate and fine for coyotes and other varmints. Heavier bullets fell fast after 300 yds, while the 110-120s were good for 415 yd hits on Gongs, milk jugs and watched my son nail a 20oz coke bottle first shot at 415 at the back stop.

I shot several deer, all under 200 yds, using 120 Hornady SP and HP, they did fine, though retained wt. was around 70gr. I would recommend 120 BT as the ideal hunting bullet.

Dang - I remember reading that article. Or more accurately - definitely remember the one handed photo....

Thanks for sharing... I’d forgotten all about that article!

I remember that article and I agree, I'm sure I could do all my N.C.hunting with my lowly 6mmBR if it was a little lighter, but what's fun about one gun hunting..

Yes years ago a read that article too,sure it works most of the time for little deer. myself i hunt deer by the Canadian border in Minnesota and wait for a decent whitetail buck these deer are bigger and require a bigger cartridge foolish to use a smaller cartridge like a 7 mm BR . at least use 7mm-08, a lowly old 270 Win. or a lowly old 30-06 or whatever much better cartridges to kill bucks easier and faster . whitetail bucks sometimes don`t die easy,these bucks have a will to live or hide and die from you , a larger cartridge than a BR always works better. 56 years killing whitetails with bow,rifle,pistol , muzzle loader has taught me don`t use a iffy cartridge to hunt with, i don`t hunt geese either with a 410.

And here we go ...

Pete53, not an animal in North America I would not punch thru the lungs with a 7BR properly loaded, within a reasonable distance. Lots of folks shoot big Mulies with the 243, but everyone has to use what they feel comfortable with.....the 7-08 you referred to has a great reputation with 120 BTs, at about 250-300 fps higher mv, when both loaded to it's potential.

Folks over on the Grendel forum have used that round to 400 yds on Elk........not my preference, nor would the 7BR be, but I sure think a deer that weighs 300 lbs dies the same as one that weighs 100 lbs, when it's lungs flood with blood and they bleed out.

None the less, nothing wrong with the 7/08 and 270, I have used both successfully, as I have the 6BR out to 400 yds.

Not trying to change anyone's choice of tools, but wanted to share a story by a reputable author about his time with a unique rifle in a neat cartridge.

I do recall Finn writing in a Gun Digest or Shooters Bible, it seems his wife was using a Sako 7/08 on Elk and thought she grabbed 140 partitions for the hunt but discovered she had 140 Corelokts...........she was successful.

I'm all for using enough gun, but I agree with Finn......a majority of the time, most hunters have more than enough rifle for deer.

Very interesting read.....now I want a 7BR

I think the "120 @ 2878" is the telling point.

Doesn't the 250-3000 propel a 100gr bullet at about 2800fps?

Most people who have used the 250 Savage on deer with the 100gr bullet have nothing but good to say about it.

Another 20gr of weight and a few more fps - like that offered by the 7BR - can only be better!

yoming and SoDak mule deer and whitetails bang flop from a lowly 223 and 77 tmk from 20 to 500 yards

Good to know you guys in Minnesota got ironside deer that require no less then 50gr of powder.

Good article.First time I read it.I concur with his findings.I have used the 7TCU and 7-30 Waters in Contenders with 14" Pistol barrels and 23" rifle barrels.I have taken speed goats with both length barrel s out to about 200 yards no problem,Favorite bullet ,120 grain Ballistic tip.I have also used the 120 grain single shot pistol bullet.It was Sierra I think or maybe Hornady.

Huntz - I took a deer with a 7TCU in a 14" using a fireform load about 2,000 mv with a 140 BT, only 30 yds, but suffice to say it did expand and do enough damage......yes that round is a solid 200 yd round as is the 6.5 TCU - and 120s were what I used in the old Nosler Solid Base when they were available, in the 120 version. That old SB was a nice bullet, a bit less expensive IIRC than the BT, but just as well balanced in it's construction and behavior on game. Hunting 'lopes with a TCU would be about ideal, short of using a wheelgun. I watched a show recently a guy was bragging on his 1,380 yds shot or so with a 6.5/284. Sadly #1 hit the azz end making a nasty wound, before getting the coup de grâce on #2.

I recall the 120s fireformed in the TCU did around 2400 in the 14" and should be good for 2550 in the rifles. I did have some overcharge loads do over 2500 in my 14" before I realized I stuffed too much 2495 AA in it. 2015BR was my go to and it did great in my 7BR. Commercial 223 brass always gave me better results and I did have one case head separate in the TCU with Mil-surp that had to go back to TC to get it extracted. Just an FYI to anyone loading TCU's. My TCU in both 10 and 14" routinely outshot many rifles at the range back when I was in college. Took a crow around 150 yds, it is a nice round.

The 120 BT may well be the best, or one of the best (as some is subjective) in 6.5 and 7mm rounds, from the Grendel, BR, and other modest sized rounds like the 47L, 6.5CM and 260. The 130 AB has been my go to in the latter three and the Swede, though the Swede always seemed to eat 140s like bread goes with butter. I am always one to love high BC/SD bullets spun in fast twist bores, but must say trajectory of 120s and 130s at common distances up to say 400 yds seems to be just fine in modest 6.5s and smaller 7s.

To those who are intrigued by the 7BR, I would also recommend the 6 and 6.5BR, as well as the 6.5x47 Lapua, and if you want an array of good factory ammo a 6.5CM. I can say all of them perform and will do well with good bullets. IIRC, JB said Gail Root who designed the 6mm 95BT took Caribou and/or Elk.....they are a fantastic killer for a 6. I do prefer the 120 BT for an all around killer on large game but killed my share with a 6 to have complete confidence. Make a 6BR feed might be a bit tricky depending on your set up, vs a 7BR, as I mentioned the heavier 7 bullets made the rounds lay flat in the magazine and they fed like glass in my set up. Rem made a M7 KS in limited numbers in the 7BR, though that ULA that Finn had looks to be one heck of a handy dandy short to mid-range sporter.

One fellow I corresponded with used a 6.5x47 in a 17" shorty, and killed a large buck over 500 yds, LRF, using a 136 Lapau IIRC. These modest rounds, make lightweight killing machines with used with good bullets and good marksman.

I have asked CZ to make their 6.5G in the Short Carbine like their 223 and 7.6x39, but the last I knew, no cigar. As I mentioned above the BR will run about 200+ fps faster with 120s.........but the Grendel should be a solid 250-300 yd round (using 120-123s) for a handy carbine with modest blast and minimal recoil. No doubt a well loaded 223 can double on deer where legal.

I have a 700 with a 20” barrel chambered for the 7TCU. It’s similar in performance to Finn’s 7br. I get 2550-2575 with 120 Btips and Sierra SPs and RL7. Accuracy is great, no recoil, not much blast. The 120s seem to perform great at these speeds although I’ve never killed anything over about 150 yards with it.

I always thought a 7TCU or 6.5TCU would be good in an AR-15.They seem to load fine in a stock AR magazine.Not only for hunting but a good defense load .

Sounds like a neat rifle, what contour barrel ?

Indeed the 7TCU is very mild and the BR only uses a few grains more powder. It was one of my most enjoyable rounds next to the 6BR. You don't notice recoil, blast and can self-spot hits. Unlike say a 243, brass and bore life seems infinite and no case trimming needed with my 7BR.

Would the 7mmBR work in a Howa Mini action?

Seems like a good time show off my new deer rig in 30BR. Developed loads this morning. Thats 5 shot groups.

Assuming this was meant for me. My rifle wears a K&P cut rifled barrel I bought for next to nothing. It was a pressure barrel chambered for 280 Rem and the chamber section was 3” in diameter with an abrupt step down to 2” diameter and straight untapered for 24”. It appeared unfired or fired very little. I cut the 3” section off which was about 5” long and turned the remainder to match the SAUM M7 contour.

This pig fell to a single 110gr Speed TNT square in the shoulder from about 80 yards. He made it maybe 20 feet before he flopped.

I’m digging your 30BR ctsmith. I have a Griffin Recce 7 in jail and the TCU is going to be one of the first ones threaded for it when it gets here. What kind of silencer are you using on yours?

Its a Dead Air Nomad 30. Extremely pleasant tone, I'm more than impressed. Its also very flexible too, with the ability to easily change out both ends; direct thread vs various adapters for the barrel attachment, and end caps in 5.56, 6.5, and 7.62. Weight is on the light side at 14 oz. They are in stock at Silencer Shop. I'm tempted to order a few more while the getting is good.

Nice contour and field photo of the 30BR.

The 30BR is a performer, proven highly accurate and no doubt effective in the field.

Folks, not a big deal, but I referred to Finn Aagaard ealier in a comment about the 7/08 on elk, I stand corrected, I am almost sure it was Sam Fadala, not Finn who that write up was about, his wife using it. None the less, I just wanted to correct that.......

Huntz - Yes, the TCU would indeed be a viable round in an AR platform. Now with the various 6, 6.5 and 6.5 on PPC type rounds, they may be the easier way to go......save the endless 223 / 5.56 brass supply. COL would have to be checked to see what bullets could be seated and run thru the magazine. The smaller 5.56 case would allow more rounds per mag I would assume than say Grendel or similar. Just another thought.

As to the above question on the Howa Micro- if it's like the old Sako L469 and 461 actions, I am not sure if you have enough bolt to work with to open to the '308' round sized head diameter. A Grendel may be the max, I know Sako did PPCs in a limited # and the old 7x33 Sako round, not sure offhand how it compares.

Ctsmith - like to hear the specs on your build, ever nice set up. With the can, are you hunting with it? Hal Swiggest used the Ballistic tip often in his 30-30 TC's - the 125 seemed to blow up much more than the 150, though in the BR round I would think the 125 would give a more usable trajectory. When I ran a 30-30 10" TC, it doted on Speer 130 Mag-tips. They seemed stouter for hunting than the 125 BTs. I ran a BT thru a jug and into a stack of telephone books and a log. It did not hold together well, for whatever that can say about it's use for hunting. No doubt in the lungs or neck deer would not be happy.

I remember reading an article by Bob Milek about Remington's trio of BR cartridges. After reading that article I found a Remington Model Seven KS in 7mmBR at a gun show. I really enjoyed the rifle but I did not handload at that time and ammo was hard to find. I sold the rifle and purchased a Ruger M77 limited run in 7.62x39 which I used for several years as my primary deer rifle. I moved on to TC Contender Carbines in 7x30 Waters, 30-30 Win, and 35 Rem. I enjoy the low recoil and low muzzle blast.

I was not thinking about the head size of the cartridge when I asked the question about the Howa Mini action.

65BR, I am assuming that you have bolt actions in the BR chamberings. What actions have you used and is getting them to feed from the magazine a problem?

Yes. I know a bloke who has done several BR based cartridges on the Howa Mini.

Open boltface.
Open up the factory 7.62x39/Grendel magazine box.
Fit new barrel.

Shoot.


I have a 6mm BR on a Pierce Ti action and use slightly modded plastic AICS 223 magazines. It feeds flawlessly. There is a Bartlein barrel sitting here to become a 7mm BR some time in the near future.

Interesting about the Howa - I would consult with some good gunsmiths to be sure that would be safe, and it may well be, perhaps the bolt is thicker than a small Sako......I know it's been said the PPC is about the Sako is safe to handle.

As to feeding in bolts, I ran a SS Model 7, used 700 stamped follower and it fed 7BR slick as glass. 6BR tended to angle upward with lighter bullets and did not feed well out of the mag, but ran some 6BR w/105s thru my 7BR just to test and they seemed to feed just fine also.

It isn't about the size of the bolt body, but the size of the locking lugs and their abutments.

If a bolt action can handle a 6.5 Grendel, then it can handle a BR case AT NORMAL PRESSURES. Unlike the AR bolt head, a normal bolt action is not structurally undermined by making the boltface larger.

65BR,

Its a Bighorn SR3 action, Manners EH6 stock, and Bartlein #3 15 twist at 19" plus the can. Chambered with the Robinett reamer. Rem 700 223 follower and spring, with the box modified by Jon Beanland. Beanland built the rifle. The box holds four down and its the best feeding rifle I own. Jon really focused on feeding and he nailed it.

Rifle is a dedicated southeast Alabama deer thinning rig. Its amazingly pleasant to shoot, no hearing protection warranted.

As for the 125 BTs, I'll let you next year how they work on whitetails, it will account for 10+ in season. I'll give them a year and re-evaluate, unless there is a total breakdown.

As for a load, based on above target, I loaded 10 rounds at 29.5 and fired a 10 consecutive shot group for a final proof before loading. There's a little vertical in the load, but it will do. Plan to chrono (magnetospeed) today and will report back.

Excellent - thanks for sharing. Reading of impressive velocities in the 30BR, guessing you are getting perhaps 2800-2900 with 125s ?

I think you will be fine on the BT if you use Lung, Head/neck shots. Not sure how they would do on shoulders at high speeds.

Remember its a 19" barrel. 2575 fps with the 29,5 grain load. I originally was shooting a 31.0 load but it started showing pressure signs that I originally overlooked. That load was 2650. At 2575 there is no pressure signs and its relatively mild. Doubt I'll ever shoot out the barrel at that rate.

I shot a 7BR for Standard Rifle High-Power Silhouette for about 5 years and it worked great - mild recoil, easy load development, 120 Sierras for chickens, 140 Sierras for pigs and turkeys, 168 Sierras for rams. I lost fewer rams with the 7BR than any other caliber I ever used, they went over slow but they ended up falling most everytime even though it was a slow motion affair. The 7BR will make a wind-reader out of you though when shooting 500 meters but I was lucky that I developed my wind skills with it because just about any other high-power slihouette cartridge cuts the wind better. I had it in a Fajen Silhouette stock . it was built of a Rem 700 Varminter7/08 with the barrel cut back and rechambered to 7BR. Perfect weight and perfect shooter.

I have a friend who sold his 7BR with a documented 12,000 rounds through the barrel and it is still shooting compeitively, about the only thing that shoots easier is the 7TCU but they will leave rams standing more often, expecially if the wind is hitting them from the back side.


The 7BR is a very under-rated cartridge. If it will push a 55# ram off a rail at 550 meters it will surely kill a deer.

drover

CT, yes, but the data I read was surely much higher pressure.........as some tend to do.

Drover, great stuff! Seen a few 700V done that way......my 7/08 shot so good, only thing I did was drop in a VLS stock with Ebony tip, floated it, and chopped to 21" - loud but it shot bugholes.......I never shot silhouette, just deer.

As to the BR, in 7 and 30 the barrel life seems forever........

I love the 7BR and the 7TCU. I have a 10" Encore 7BR barrel that I used to shoot IHMSA production with. Using 19 grains of SR4759 and a 145 grain RCBS Silhouette cast bullet, I could take the 200 meter rams with no problem. It was very pleasant to shoot.

For hunting, I have used a 14" 7TCU barrel on one of my Contenders and a 120 grain Nosler BT pushed by 28 grains of 2460 to take a few GA whitetails. Longest shot was 123 yards. Excellent performer.

Just recently I picked up a Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .223 for a song. Had the action worked by LRI and I threaded a 18" Wilson Remage barrel from Ragged Hole Barrels chambered in 7TCU onto it. Put a Trigger Tech Primary on it and swapped out the mag spacer with one that is only 1/4" and put the whole thing in a Mesa Precision stock. With my Dead Air Sandman Ti threaded on the end, it is still very maneuverable in a blind. The first load I tested in it was 23.2 grains of H4198 with Nosler BT. It shot five 5-shot groups into an aggregate average of 0.958". I took that load to my annual hunt in middle GA and was able to put a good doe and my biggest buck on the ground with that load. The doe was at 93 yards and the buck was at 17. Doe was a perfect broadside and bullet performed as expected. Caliber sized entrance, 2X sized exit. Good blood and she went 25 yards and down. The buck was quartering to pretty hard, but it was right at dark and he was getting ready to walk into my wind, so I put it right on the top of his onside shoulder (I was 20 feet up) and pulled the trigger. He bucked up, went 12 yards into the woods and crashed. The bullet drove through the top of the shoulder and exited the lower ribcage on the off side. The jacket was still in the deer.
I honestly think that this is the perfect 200 yard and in whitetail rig, and chambering the rifle in 7BR would stretch that to 300-400 yards.

Great report, very efficient in short handgun barrels as you noted. Nice to use such a mild load and knock down 200 yds rams.

Many folks would grossly underestimate the field effectiveness of these smaller capacity rounds. The 120 BT is near ideal for hunting in a BR or TCU.

What kind of speed are you seeing out of the rifle with 4198? I usually use R7 in mine but can’t find any and wouldn’t mind an alternative.

I got best speed with IMR4895 and 2015 BR - not in that order...with 120s, in a 21"

I actually haven’t run that load over a chrony yet, but I can look at my notes for drop and come to a pretty close approximation when I get home this evening,

I’d appreciate it.

Took a look at my data. Based on my drops from 50 to 200, I would say that my load is somewhere in the 2300 fps range out of my 18" barrel with a suppressor on the end.

6.5 BR is what the 7 BR is trying to be....think outside the box........

Start at the start, Lapua brass

...or Peterson

https://www.petersoncartridge.com/match-grade-brass/brass-rifle-casings/7mm-br-rem/

Thanks. I have a pound or so left of R7, that’ll last a good while as little as it takes in the TCU. But it’s always nice to have options, plus I’m guessing it’s going to start getting more use once my suppressor gets out of jail.

I used a bit of 6BR Lapua brass and it’s wonderful.

The capacity might be a bit higher - can’t recall but quality is superb. I had a big supply of Nickel RP and it did very well. I had cases lasting 15+ loads.

Partial sizing works the cases very little. So easy to load and mild to shoot.

Keith for hunting I’d do a 6.5 in a heartbeat. Sandwiched right between the Grendel and Creedmoor.

A 100 TTSX and 120 BT would be my first to try loads in either. Both should be good to 300 yds or so, the 120 better as you get further out as monos like speed to expand as we know. The 120 should overtake the 100 as ranges grow.

As a side note I kick myself not buying a 6.5 BR MOA carbine a buddy had in the 90’s. Trigger was unreal. Very compact and light rifle. 100 BTs bugholed. Loading the rifle was a bit unusual and slow. But you only need the first accurate shot 😁

Was that a carbine based on the MOA pistol?

Yes, about a 22" sporter barrel. and rifle stock

I still think about an EABCO 97D in 6.5BRM. The only reason I don’t is because I have the 7TCU, .260 and 6.5-06 bolt guns.

I'll be damned, never seen a carbine version but yeah I'd think it would make a nice little package. I used to have a 7BR, very accurate, great trigger, never really warmed up to the feel of it though. For the 22lr versions silhouette shooters use a little loading stick contraption that holds the round so they can reach it into the chamber.

Does anyone know what happened to the ULA 7mm BR rifle?

Finn had a way of going deep into the looney stuff, then bringing you back to what really mattered in the final paragraph.


Okie John

Outstanding article! Thanks for sharing. The final paragraph certainly poignant. Validated what many have been thinking for a while now

Lots of neat little rifles shown here that work well without much fuss and bother. I finagled one for myself a few years ago. An uncle gifted me with a M600 Remington in 222 rem that had been neglected (before he got it) and had a fine coat of rust throughout, inside and outside. I cleaned it up as best I could, but it never shot well. I figured the bore had been compromised by the rust. At the time I was playing around with T/C Contenders in 7mmTCU and thought a caliber conversion would be a good idea, so I had it rebored and rechambered to 7mmTCU. To get it to feed correctly, I had to change the blocking in the rear of the magazine well a little. I now have a 'not-too-pretty' M600 repeater in a cool caliber that shoots light's out with 115 and 120 grain bullets.

Several years back I talked to Mickey Coleman about rebarreling a Rem Model Seven to a 7mm BR. Never did get around to do it.

I've used several smaller cartridges over the years. 6x47 Rem, 6mm TCU, 25-45 Sharps, and all work great on southern Whitetail.

I had surgery on my shooting shoulder last November so I had a Tikka T3X barreled to a .277 Wolverine. I took a 8 point buck about 15 minutes after I took this picture.

I think that the Howa Mini action is the same as their short action and long action in every way EXCEPT length. Same bolt and action diameter, etc.

But I haven't had a chance to compare them side by side.

Bruce

I think you will be very pleasantly surprised with the 125 gr. Ballistic Tip. I loaded those for a friend for years to use in a 308 BLR carbine which he used for his kids.
It worked very well for southern white tails in Mississippi. Also loaded some for another fellow in a 30-30 TC 14” barrel length. He killed hogs and deer with it.
In both cases people were surprised at how well the bullet did.

Excellent thread. I have rifles in 6 BR and 30 BR and own the reamers do my own work.

Reading this has me thinking of rebarreling my model 7 which is currently a 358 win. Could go either way but with more thought the 30 BR might get the nod. My reamer is throated for heavier bullets.

The current 30 BR has a 22" barrel and shoots 168s @ 2490 fps with IMR 8208 XBR. It is a SA Rem and the cartridges fit and feed fantastically. It also shoots 175 gr bullets @ 2385.

Fun to consider the possibilities.

Finn was a friend, and I had the pleasure of participating in the testing of several rifles he later wrote about in the various NRA publications. One of those was the ULA 7mm BR. Lots of rifles passed through his hands in those days and although he purchased a few rather than returning them, I don’t think he coveted more than one or two. One of those was the little ULA, but he didn’t keep it.
Years after Finn’s passing, I met Melvin at an NRA convention and we had a pleasant conversation about Finn and ultimately the rifle Finn tested. Apparently, when the rifle got back to West Virginia, it was adopted by Melvin’s daughter who was still happily using it as her deer rifle. I would like to think that is still the case.

Thank you, I hope that it is still be used also.

I peek in on Steel Chickens on occasion and I saw a Silhouette Rifle in 7BR for sale that made me (non-MS shooter) scratch my chin and think a bit...that BR can drop Rams? ...or maybe not, hence the "for sale". Your post addresses that. I had half a thought to chase that rifle (maybe it was your friend's)...but in the end I passed.