Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Are we being visited a curse from God?

I know and have known some folks that believe in predestination in the sense that God chooses who he will save and that's it. Nothing you can do about it. That doesn't comport with common sense. As far as what paul said in Romans, he is a nut case, that contradicted Jesus, John the Baptist, Old Testament law, you name it, he took the other side. When Jonah was dispatched to Nineveh (an enemy city) against his will they were under sentence of destruction. This was headed off by repentance and outward evidence of said repentance. Mind you, this was a Jewish prophet sent to an unfriendly gentile city. The city was spared as was Nebuchadnezzar in another instance illustrating a gentile accepting salvation through repentance. Jesus did not ever explicitly endorse predestination. Getting back to repentance, I have to wonder if Judas Iscariot received salvation. He certainly repented evidenced by returning his bribe money and being distressed enough to hang himself. Pilate is claimed to have repented and is honored as a saint. Why don't you drop your guard just a little and check out Jesus? I recommend a site named Jesuswordsonly. It won't hurt to look, you can always just say no.

Predestination? Goodbye freedom:

''Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, '' Ephesians 1:4-5

''The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble. '' Proverbs 16:4

''Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.'' Ephesians 1:4

''And all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. '' Revelation 13:8

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.” Jeremiah 1:5

''To do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.'' Acts 4:28

Remorse/gulit some say is not the same
as repentance... ie; one can acknowledge
ones wrong doing, but have you sincerely
committed to changed your ways?

You see nothing can be simple/straighforward
for christians , coz there are those that need to
put some twisted arcane word wizardry def.
to millenia old ordinary everyday things...coz
apparently God puts special meaning on them
just for christians to decifer!



How would you know?

Predestination.
Free Will.

It may be that a good starting point for considering the crossroad of these two issues is to figure out what the state of man’s will is in a fallen world. Is the Will fully free or is it somehow restricted or confined? Do physical, mental, spiritual constraints exist that define, restrict or contain the Will?

If limited, what do those limits mean concerning the inclination, ability, desire, etc., of the Will?

If fully free and unrestricted or unrestrained why do we find limitations on the Will?

Will is confined by the underlying process the forms it, the underlying neural information processing activity milliseconds prior to conscious expression of thought, will and decision making.

We do not consciously form our thoughts, desires, fears or will.

Will is not the master of the mind or decision making.

It is the brain that generates both conscious and unconscious mind.

No brain activity, no mind, no consciousness, no you.

While you address neurological function or process do you consider nurture and environment to set constraints on or influence the will in any way?

‘Cause they can’t stand it that you, as a believer, choose to believe something that they don’t want you to believe. They can’t stand it that you, as a believer, choose to believe in something that they don’t believe in. And they try to camouflage that truth with “I see no evidence of...” or “If it’s true it should be provable...” or “Separating fact from fiction...” type statements. They are clearly WAY more bothered by what you, as a believer, choose to believe...than you are bothered by what they, as unbelievers, choose not to believe.

Of course. We are not separate from our environment. Our environment shapes us, language, values, outlook.....

So, you can do a Bible search. Now go on and do a search of “free will.” Post the results.

Your one sided view of predestination will be shown to be intellectually biased to the point of being simply dishonest.

Amen

I wonder how many Israelites cursed Moses in their flight to the Red Sea.

Can we change the title to "Meeting of the Minds."

LOL

Well, that was pretty early in their departure.

So I'd say any negativity they conveyed didn't compare to the next forty fugkin' years.

LOL

You got that right, Col.

Of course. Many mind with you in the meeting.

That’s why I say they should question their own world views, using the same metric as they use against others. They may be surprised .

The Old Testament scriptures didn’t become the first part of the Christian Bible, first. Early Jesus followers, ‘not’ the Jews themselves, saw that they pointed to the Messiah, who they recognized and believed to be Jesus. But Jesus’ followers are NOT required to follow the Old Covenant. Those Law keepers thought they were living holy lives if they just obeyed all 630 something rules in the Law. Jesus Himself disagreed, and pointed out that those Law keepers found enough loopholes to obey all those rules in the Law and ‘still’ be wicked and greedy (Matthew 23:23-28). He stressed that obedience to God involved intentions and attitudes (‘the heart’) rather than strict adherence to the rituals and rules in the Law. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, and Romans ‘all’ said that Jesus fulfilled the Law...His sacrifice on the cross ended forever the Old Covenant. Peter, James (Jesus’ brother), Barnabas, and Paul...at the Council of Jerusalem...all agreed that NOTHING was required of Gentile followers of Jesus except faith in Him, and they were NOT bound by the Law. Jesus’ own teachings, along with the Council of Jerusalem, and other teachings in the New Testament scriptures make it crystal clear that Jesus’ followers are NOT required to follow the Old Covenant.

There are those to this day that ‘still’ insist, and would have you believe, that salvation is obtained by keeping the Law, and good works...rather than by God’s grace.

Hilarious!
Considering Christianity has a global mission/
agenda to convert mankind's beliefs ,. Why can't
they just leave mankind alone?..I mean if God
really wants them he can find and guide them, surely?

Instead you have an army of self appointed
God botherers with the deluded idea that they
have divine authority to brainwash folks for
their own good... and they got the moitivation
after reading some bronze age mythology.

GRACE is the ONLY THING.

[quote=Starman][/quote]
It's so unfortunate that you were predestined to be damned. You seem very bitter about it.