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Joined: Jun 2020
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2020
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Amen! Now I'm hearing good sense ! β π π "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."Ephesians 2:8 Do you work your way to heaven by baptism, turning from sins, keeping the golden rule, OR is it by grace (the undeserved kindness of God upon the one who believes in His Son)? " And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."
Romans 11:6 Can't get much clearer than that .
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
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As this has drifted off the original topic, I'll post something my dear mother used to quote.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o "May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Yep. Jesus is grace personified. Grace isnβt a bunch of rules in the Law for one to keep, and grace isnβt a lubricant for greasing the cogs of good works. God gave us His grace through His son.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Jun 2020
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2020
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As this has drifted off the original topic, I'll post something my dear mother used to quote. We sing that song/psalm Richard! I wish that I had a music recording to go with it for you.
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I think America is being visited by a curse from ourselves.
God just says, "Oh,...you just want to be human? Well, go be human, then". Agree with the sentiment, but would change it to β Oh you want to do all the things I told you would hurt you? Well, go ahead and learn for yourself.β
Tell me the odds of putting grease on the same pancake? I Know they are there, well ice and house slippers. -Kawi
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
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Why don't you just clamp on the shirt tails of those good men that will lead the way? You see, it's about choice.......and about him.......and nothing to do with you. Get out of the way! This nation has sinned enough to deserve it.
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today. Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,966 Likes: 6 |
Amen! Now I'm hearing good sense ! β π π "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."Ephesians 2:8 Do you work your way to heaven by baptism, turning from sins, keeping the golden rule, OR is it by grace (the undeserved kindness of God upon the one who believes in His Son)? " And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."
Romans 11:6 Can't get much clearer than that . If you love God you want to get baptized. After all. Jesus was baptized and God was very pleased. God's Word teaches "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God Who is at work in you." Philippines 2:12 This is the same apostle who wrote "By grace...." We can't have one without the other.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
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.. As far as what paul said in Romans, he is a nut case, that contradicted Jesus, John the Baptist, Old Testament law, you name it, he took the other side... Not unlike some on the CF, Paul considered himself extra special and more personally informed from God.. James brother of Jesus and other devout followers of Jesus got it all wrong apparently.. π When Paul's life was threatened with mob jew violence, it wasn't God or Jesus or Christians that got his ass out of a serious jam, but his Roman citizenship which was recognized by a Roman legion Tribune[officer] leading some Centurions and Legionary troopers in response to the ruckus. How different the world would be today if they had just let the mob have him... those damn fckn do-gooder pagan Romans!
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
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As this has drifted off the original topic, I'll post something my dear mother used to quote. We sing that song/psalm Richard! I wish that I had a music recording to go with it for you. Yeah what could make a person feel better when contemplating solutions to a real problem.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
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Predestination? Goodbye freedom:
''Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, '' Ephesians 1:4-5
''The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble. '' Proverbs 16:4
''Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.'' Ephesians 1:4
''And all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. '' Revelation 13:8
βBefore I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.β Jeremiah 1:5
''To do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.'' Acts 4:28 So, you can do a Bible search. Now go on and do a search of βfree will.β Post the results. Your one sided view of predestination will be shown to be intellectually biased to the point of being simply dishonest. Free will is a red herring. I have pointed out that the decision making process is far more complex than the quasi religious term 'free will' can hope to encompass. The term free will tells us nothing about how or why decisions are made, or human behaviour and its drivers as a whole. Believers use the term as means of simplistic defense.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Predestination? Goodbye freedom:
''Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, '' Ephesians 1:4-5
''The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble. '' Proverbs 16:4
''Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.'' Ephesians 1:4
''And all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. '' Revelation 13:8
βBefore I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.β Jeremiah 1:5
''To do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.'' Acts 4:28 So, you can do a Bible search. Now go on and do a search of βfree will.β Post the results. Your one sided view of predestination will be shown to be intellectually biased to the point of being simply dishonest. Free will is a red herring. I have pointed out that the decision making process is far more complex than the quasi religious term 'free will' can hope to encompass. The term free will tells us nothing about how or why decisions are made, or human behaviour and its drivers as a whole. Believers use the term as means of simplistic defense. Yeah.... yada yada from you..... weak response. Like a child backing away from a fight he knows he cannot win. So, If have this correct, you cannot provide your thoughts on predestination nor on free will.... you simply retreat to the some sort of mindless cut and paste that you cannot talk to........... or your just opt with some yada yada statement about "Free will is a red herring." You try to cover yourself with some empty comment about "free will tells us nothing about how or why decisions are made......" Looks like full on retreat to me.
Last edited by TF49; 01/16/21.
The tax collector said: βLord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.β Jesus said he went home βjustified.β
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Will is confined by the underlying process the forms it, the underlying neural information processing activity milliseconds prior to conscious expression of thought, will and decision making.
We do not consciously form our thoughts, desires, fears or will.
Will is not the master of the mind or decision making.
It is the brain that generates both conscious and unconscious mind.
No brain activity, no mind, no consciousness, no you. Well, since you offer no proof to back up your statements, we can saflye write them off as simply an opinion of a person who has provided no basis for his belief. You seem to alone with your thoughts....
Last edited by TF49; 01/16/21.
The tax collector said: βLord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.β Jesus said he went home βjustified.β
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,290 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2011
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Christians even have their own spin on the meaning of predestination.. TFF.
Now if God willed your choices, we're they really your freewill choices? Why would you say that? Who do you think believes that God wills all your choices? Classic strawman.....
The tax collector said: βLord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.β Jesus said he went home βjustified.β
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,737 Likes: 4
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,737 Likes: 4 |
Predestination? Goodbye freedom:
''Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, '' Ephesians 1:4-5
''The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble. '' Proverbs 16:4
''Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.'' Ephesians 1:4
''And all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. '' Revelation 13:8
βBefore I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.β Jeremiah 1:5
''To do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.'' Acts 4:28 So, you can do a Bible search. Now go on and do a search of βfree will.β Post the results. Your one sided view of predestination will be shown to be intellectually biased to the point of being simply dishonest. Free will is a red herring. I have pointed out that the decision making process is far more complex than the quasi religious term 'free will' can hope to encompass. The term free will tells us nothing about how or why decisions are made, or human behaviour and its drivers as a whole. Believers use the term as means of simplistic defense. Yeah.... yada yada from you..... weak response. Like a child backing away from a fight he knows he cannot win. So, If have this correct, you cannot provide your thoughts on predestination nor on free will.... you simply retreat to the some sort of mindless cut and paste that you cannot talk to........... or your just opt with some yada yada statement about "Free will is a red herring." You try to cover yourself with some empty comment about "free will tells us nothing about how or why decisions are made......" Looks like full on retreat to me. It is your response that is weak and childish....all angst and emotion, accusation and denial. It's quite clear that you have very little understanding of the subject matter. Prove me wrong, provide a logical, unemotional argument for free will, a definition, be it compatibalist, libertarian, etc, how it works, evidence for support, with at least one good example. Can you do that in a reasonable adult manner?
Last edited by DBT; 01/16/21.
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I'm confident you will be back to tell everyone how God tells you things he doesn't tell others. You are so immersed and comforted in your own fragile bubble delusions you couldnt bear to give them up. The only optIon you see is to keep perpetuating them No matter how absurd or rediculous they make you appear...typical trait of desperate God botherers is to double-down on their BS rather give it up... You will plunge into denial and retaliate in indignation simply to defend your own dented pride and ego. Essentially just a tired old repeat of the TF49 approach the CF has come to know.
Seems to me that you are angry ... you are again "venting your spleen." " To vent oneβs spleen means to air oneβs grievances, to make enraged complaints, or to express oneβs anger." If the "God botherers" make you upset ... why are you here? You are like a moth drawn to a flame... you cannot leave Christian threads alone....Some sort of self abuse?
The tax collector said: βLord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.β Jesus said he went home βjustified.β
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Posts: 6,737 Likes: 4
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
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Will is confined by the underlying process the forms it, the underlying neural information processing activity milliseconds prior to conscious expression of thought, will and decision making.
We do not consciously form our thoughts, desires, fears or will.
Will is not the master of the mind or decision making.
It is the brain that generates both conscious and unconscious mind.
No brain activity, no mind, no consciousness, no you. Well, since you offer no proof to back up your statements, we can saflye write them off as simply an opinion of a person who has provided no basis for his belief. You seem to alone with your thoughts.... There is abundant proof to support the proposition that it is the brain that acquires information from the senses, processes that information and forms an internal mental picture from some of that information: consciousness. A simple hammer applied to the head with force can prove it.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,401 Likes: 35
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,401 Likes: 35 |
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o "May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,737 Likes: 4
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,737 Likes: 4 |
Christians even have their own spin on the meaning of predestination.. TFF.
Now if God willed your choices, we're they really your freewill choices? It appears that way. A special form of predestination that is really not predestination at all, but freedom for all to do anything and everything that is not destined to happen. It's quite strange.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,285 Likes: 15 |
.. As far as what paul said in Romans, he is a nut case, that contradicted Jesus, John the Baptist, Old Testament law, you name it, he took the other side... Not unlike some on the CF, Paul considered himself extra special and more personally informed from God.. James brother of Jesus and other devout followers of Jesus got it all wrong apparently.. π When Paul's life was threatened with mob jew violence, it wasn't God or Jesus or Christians that got his ass out of a serious jam, but his Roman citizenship which was recognized by a Roman legion Tribune[officer] leading some Centurions and Legionary troopers in response to the ruckus. How different the world would be today if they had just let the mob have him... those damn fckn do-gooder pagan Romans! The Romans were not going to let their man Paul be captured or even tried. He was rescued and put in the witness protection program. Christians that wish to follow Jesus would do well to remember that Jesus was vey clear the law would remain as long as heaven and earth remain. Jesus was an observant Jew and most early Christians were Jews. He did not come to establish anything new. His message was to set the errant Hebrews straight and invite any who would to come to repentance an join the Jewish people in repentance and salvation. He clearly told his disciples to go to the lost sheep of Israel. Every one else besides Paul that Jesus called, he called publicly. I notice very little quoting of Jesus here and a bunch of Paul. Jesus gets quoted here less than the Mormons quote him.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you." Hebrew Roots Judaizer
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,614 Likes: 25 |
There are parts of the Hebrew roots movement today that despise and seek to undermine the writings of Apostle Paul. They seek to discredit Apostle Paul and the early Christian Church and take people back to the bondage of Law and works salvation...rather than salvation by Godβs grace. Remember, the first persecution of Jesusβ followers was at the hands of the Jewish βLaw keepersβ, not Rome. A leading proponent in this movement is a California based attorney named Douglas del Tondo, who promotes his agenda through his book βJesusβ Words Onlyβ...this agenda is also promoted through the website of the same purposely misleading name. They donβt like Apostle Paul because of his abrogation of the Old Covenant. He didnβt teach that βsomeβ Old Covenant laws are no longer binding on Christians (such as sacrificial laws or purity laws, for example), He taught that the Old Covenant Law itself, that ENTIRE system of laws that βused toβ define the relationship with God and His people, is no longer in effect. Apostle Paul argues that the ENTIRETY of βthe Lawβ has been set aside now that Jesus has come, and that the ENTIRE Mosaic covenant is no longer in force for Jesusβ followers. And this movement mentioned above...who βstillβ insist, and want you to believe, that salvation is obtained by following βthe Lawβ and by works...instead of through Godβs grace, clearly doesnβt like Apostle Paulβs teachings regarding this.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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