Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Advice on .416 bullets for buf

That worked.

If it was up to me, I’d be looking at the 350 TSX. Too many report good results with that bullet.

But trying to stay on the reservation. PH says 400’s, we doing 400’s. He wants softs and solids, we doing softs and solids. I think our choice of both, considering the shortages, are about the best we could do under the circumstances.

My bud’s a good hunter and an excellence marksman. He’ll make it work.

DF

Late to the conversation, but I'll add another recommendation for A-Frames. I used a Remington factory load of a 400 grn A-Frame on a head-on shot at 80 yards. The Bull stubbled backwards and then went down. The bullet was recovered in the intestines with a perfect mushroom.

I really could not ask for anything better.

We’ve been fortunate finding the Swift breakaway solids and NPT’s.

He only has 35 pieces of .416 Rem brass. I can’t find any more anywhere.

If any of you guys can sell us a few cases, don’t need many, but surely need more than 35.

He leaves in a couple of months, so we can’t wait for the market supply to catch up.

Let me know if you have a few .416 Rem cases you can spare.

DF

Let me check what I have and will get back with you

Thanks.

DF

Sent you a PM.

Thanks a bunch Heeler. You helped us a lot.

Now, I feel good about getting ordinance ready to bag a buff.

Have those new, fancy breakaway, Swift 400 gr. solids, 400 gr. NPT’s and 400 gr. A-Frames for the softs.

Plan on trying RL-15 and IMR-4064, both have good track records with 400’s in the .416 Rem. Don’t have enough bullets or time to try too many combos. Those should work.

DF

Glad to be able to help. Forgot to ask. You have Swift load data? I have book data for the A-frames but not the solids.

Granted, Bill at Swift can tell you what to use for same POI I’m sure.

Would appreciate any data. But, will check in with Bill next week.

These new Swift solids have a shorter driving band than old style solids, so they may shoot more like a soft.

Reportedly a lot of thought and effort went into the design and manufacture of those bullets. Could be why they're nearly $6 each. Glad it was my buds money I was spending...



DF.

Dirt: Try Alliant 2000-MR powder. I shot 4 buffalo with the 4000 grain Swift A frame. No need for solids. All one shot per buffalo.

I've heard too many success stories with NPT, A-Frame and TSX (350 gr. and 400 gr.) buff kills without issue. But, the PH wants 400 gr. solids and 400 gr. softs, so that what we're loading. We're trying to stay on the reservation. PH has an excellent reputation, but evidently isn't much of a gun guy. Reportedly many aren't. They know their craft and what works, end of story.

I have a can of PP 2000 MR and was looking at it as well as CFE-223, which some say is close, maybe the same powder. IMR 4320 and Leverevolution are pretty close regarding burn rate, 4064 not that far off. I've heard Big Game works well in the .375 H&H and generally what's good for the old H&H is good for the .416 Rem.

With limited time and limited components, I may not be able to do a full work up like I would with another round. And, even with a standing bench, a range session with a big gun has it's own rewards. And I get stuck with the bench work, bud just wants to shoot critters. He thinks I'm better at the bench, but he for sure is a better shot out in the field. Different skill sets, no doubt. I had worked up a 7RM load, 160 NAB over RL-26, which he calls his "magic load". It really did a job on PG a couple of years ago. He even saved the emplies, wants me to reduplicate that load. I have plenty of primed brass just like he took to Africa, but I'll reload those cases...

Tomorrow, I'm going to call Bill at Swift and see what loads he suggests for their new Swift solid and their A-Frame to have the same POI or at least pretty close. If he sugests RL-15, 4064 or 4320, I'll probably go with his suggestion. I do have all the powders mentioned. RL-15 has been such a classic for so long, I wouldn't be surprised if that's his choice. I think there are newer, more temp stable powders in that burn rate range, but that's another issue.

Thanks,

DF

I wanted to add that JB, IIRC, said the newer versions of RL-15 are pretty temp stable, made to military specs.

My can is 20 yrs old; I don't use a lot of RL-15. But, it's been in a climate controlled shop its entire life, so it should be OK. It looks good and smells good. I think it'll shoot good, assuming that's what Bill at Swift suggests. We'll see and I'll report.

DF

Had a nice visit with Bill at Swift. Very knowledgeable. I heard the story of their development of the Breakaway Solids. Interesting.

They use 4064 powder with Fed 215 primers. His instructions were to work up a 50 yd. load with the 400 A-Frames, loading three at 73 gr, three at 74 gr. three at 75 gr., using a chrono. To do that, I'll have to use my std. bench, not the standing one. As previously posted, my Magnetospeed is set up free standing, needs a longer bench. Bill says to use a bag of shot to buffer recoil. Their factory A-Frame ammo has 75 gr. 4064 at 2,340 fps. 3.510" COAL.

THEN, he said, load a few Breakaway Solids. He said the left to right deviation will be minimal, what we're now doing is bringing the vertical with the solids in line with the A-Frames. Their .416 Rem Breakaway solid load is 77 gr. 4064, 3.570" COAL. He said to seat the solid with the driving band inside the case neck such that the crimp can fold over the driving band. They like the Lee Factory Crimp die as do I.

He has Varget, H-4895 and IMR-4895 load data, but prefers 4064, no mention of RL-15. Evidently the 4064 loads are not compressed, running around 95% case fill.

So, with that info, I'm ready to begin load development once my bullets and cases arrive. Just remembered, Bill said to start with a fouled barrel, not one all clean and oiled.

Will report.

DF

Forgot to add, Bill said most PH's were FOS regarding solids and softs. We discussed their preference for alternating softs and solids. Bill likes to load his gun with A-Frames, has solids on his belt. If a bull runs, he loads solids, does not use them initially. He likes solids for a "Texas heart shot", bull running away, or a full head on charge.

He said an A-Frame will transverse a buff, often stopping under the hide on the far side. For herd animals, that keeps others from getting hit. Once the herd breaks away from the shot animal, it's solid time.

Bill, for sure is a gun guy. Most PH's aren't. They know their craft, but don't keep up with the latest technology regarding bullets and loads, tend to go with hand me down, traditional info on bullets and ammo.

DF


Edited to add, Bill said he likes to line up his shot on the shoulder, about 25-30% up from the bottom, said their heart sits lower in the chest than other BG. That way, you're gonna hit at least one shoulder, and take out the big vessels over the heart, or the heart itself. They don't run far hit like that.

I'll be interested to see where you end up with the A Frames and 4064. The Enduron 4166 is the updated version and you may want to give that a try for the long term if you have any on hand. IMR has some data for 4064 and 4166 with a 400 gr Hornady which could be a starting point when used together with the chronograph. Last summer there were several offers for 416 brass and I would be surprised if the all sold. I'll PM you on one that I didn't follow up on.
I know my 416 is not much fun from the bench. Who is doing the bench work - you or your friend?

DF, glad you had a good visit with Bill and got some really good info sounds like. Don’t sound like you’ll need to fire off a lot of rounds for load development.

Don’t know if you gathered, he’s the HMFIC at Swift.

I have 4166, may load a few with that one. I'll compare data for a starting load.

Good idea.

BTW, he "lets" me do the bench work, he shoots the critters...

But, he's an attorney and pretty slick dude....

DF

Didn't realize that, although he obviously was very knowledgeable. He answered the phone on about the second ring.

I told him I had developed 160 NAB loads for my bud's 7RM Sendero over RL-26, used very successfully on a PG hunt. "He should have used Scirocco's". I told him bud was a big NAB fan, but for my fast twist .22-204, I used 75 gr. Scirocco's and I let him know how well they whacked hogs. He liked that.

I think I casually mentioned that I have some .416 400 NPT's on the way.

He wasn't too generous concerning the competition. I didn't mention Partitions or such any more....

I was looking for Swift bullet info, not trying to pizz him off....

From then on, it was all A-Frames and Breakaway Solids... We talked for a while. He was in no hurry to get me off the line. I enjoyed the visit. He was very generous with both his time and his knowledge.

DF

Thanks for sharing all of the Swift info, Dirt!

lol
Good deal, just gotta remember to not mention the competition..

Ha!

Seriously, Bill’s a good guy and for sure a fellow gun nut, our kinda Loony.

His protocol develops a load without a bunch of shooting. As the “shooter”, I appreciate that.

And to know the load that works for them, the powder they use in their commercial ammo, gives us a big leg up.

One would have to do a lot of shooting to get there, which I’m sure they did. Means I (we) don’t have to.

DF