Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Why no 243??

Anybody know why AR uppers are not offered in 243? Seems to me an AR-10 (308) could be rebarreled to a 243, 338 Fed, 358 Win or any other cartridge based on the 308 case??

I heard Ruger was going to offer the Mini-30 in 243 but had feeding issues?

Any true insight?

Armalite used to chamber in .243. Are you sure they don't still?

There are lots of them out there.

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=1773

I think they get overshadowed by the popularity of the the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Bingo on the last sentence

I don't understand this. What's wrong with a .308? It will push a 0.525 BC 168gr ABLR bullet about as fast as the CM will push a 130gr bullet with the same-or-lower B.C. Recoil in a semiauto .308 is basically nonexistent for anyone over 100 lbs.

I can remember Springfield armory used to advertise the M1a in 243, the focus was on lady competitive shooting IIRC.

Wilson Combat had barrels in a number of .308 based cartridges - but they’ve closed out a number of them this past year.

Looks like they are down to one .243 offering.

I like mine. Built with a BHW barrel and Aero parts

Lapua brass and 105s blend together perfectly.

If you have to ask why, then you've never had ore experienced one. I know you love your 308, but the 6.5 creed is more of a good thing in an AR10. BTDT. You may also want to compare 140-147gr high bc bullets from the creed to one of your favorite 308 pills.. The ".525 bc" bullet you suggest is lacking compared to a .625 bc 143gr 6.5 bullet launched from the creed. Would a hunter ever notice the difference? Probably not, but long range competitors know and appreciate the edge the 6.5 gives.

I'd take a 308 over a 6.5 Needmor any day. The NeedMor has nothing on the 308 using heavy bullets. It's a fad
Does it shoot flatter than a 308 sure, so will the 243. Big woop.

I think the 6.5 CM is a very versatile round, but I don’t think it’s meaningfully superior to the .308.

If I’m reading correctly, a .308 will launch a 168gr 0.525 B.C. bullet at 2,750 fps (my 20” bbl DPMS does a bit less).

A 6.5 CM will launch a 143gr 0,625 B.C. bullet at 2,700 fps (out of a test bbl).

Cited in at 2” high at 100 yds, at 1,000 yds (at 5,000 ft elevation):

.308:
28.1 MOA low; 1,470 fps; 806 ft-lbs

6.5:
26.7 MOA low; 1,603 fps; 815 ft-lbs

So, the 6.5 is 1.4 MOA higher.

Cool, but a 5% difference in drop and a 9% difference in velocity. The .308 has 17% more mass.

By contrast the 6.5-300 shooting the same 0.625 B.C. 143gr bullet, sighted in 2” high at 100 yds is: 16.1 MOA low; 2,045 fps; 1,328 ft-lbs.

That’s not an AR round, but it’s a meaningful difference.

The 6.5 CM is a fine round, but it doesn’t really offer much that the .308 won’t do.

Where is the wind drift in your evaluation? The comparison between the 2 cartridges has been beaten to death. The one that prevails is always the 6.5 cm. Wind drift is better, retained energy is better further out, its also a more accurate cartridge and does so with less recoil.

The number of people who actually shoot CM beyond a half mile is negligible in number. That’s why I mentioned the 6.5-300. If you’re regularly shooting out to a mile, you likely can submit to moderate recoil, as opposed to the super-low recoil of the 6.5 CM.

The 6.5 CM is popular because it is a SA and fits in an AR10. But there are far better long range rounds if the shooter weighs more than 84 pounds.

6.5 CM:
1,000 yds: 5.6 MOA windage at 10 mph

.308:
1,000 yds: 6.9 MOA windage at 10 mph

1.3 MOA difference.

The OP was asking about the lack of .243 options. Probably not thinking of shooting past 400 yards. Hence my post.

Are many people really shooting the CM regularly past 500 yards? Past 1000 yds?

Most of the CM shooters on here are shooting game successfully at normal, moderate ranges.

If you’re really shooting past a mile, I can say that the 6.5 CM is not the best option. If not, the .308 will do everything it will do and likely more short of 300 yds.

Thee assumption thread this one is....



Insert Yoda picture.

Disregard this thread - I'm an idiot, LOL

Way back in the day when Armalite still had the patent on the AR-10 I had them make me an AR-10T in 243, it was a struggle from the start.
It had feeding issues and accuracy issues. I sent it back to Armalite twice to have it fixed and finally gave up and sold that POS.
I scratched the AR-10 itch and have never had the desire for one since, if it wont fit on an AR-15 platform then I'LL build it as a bolt gun.

I decided to get ONE big AR and it was dirt simple, 7.62x51. A couple more weeks and it should be here.

6X Mil Quad I think.

If you are talking slow fire of a shot or two at ranges less than 1,000 yards, you have a point.
But when we talk about multiple shots as in a competition or ranges over 8 or 900 yards, the 6.5 has it over the 308. The 308 does kick harder and is a marginal long range cartridge that no one would ever choose if they had a choice. Barring these two specific situations, there really isn't much to recommend one cartridge over the other. If we are talking ranges under 600 yards, I'd move to a 155gr Palma bullet to lower the 308's recoil even further. If we are talking 1,000, I'd use a heavier recoiling load for the 308, a 185gr Juggernaut, if I had any desire to be competitive.

Assuming a 10 mph full value wind:

Using my bolt 308 with a 24 inch barrel, 175 SMK at 2635 fps I end up with about 56 inches of wind drift at 800 yards.

Using my 6.5 CM with a 26 inch barrel, 140 Berger Hybrid at 2800 fps I end up with about 38 inches of wind drift at 800 yards.

If you are trying to get first round hits at distance the 6.5 has a significant advantage, but you still need to be able to call the wind. In competitions where you can choose your cartridge, you will have a very hard time finding anyone using a 308. Most are now using a 6mm of some variation in PRS so they can spot their own shots.

True if you aren't trying for long range hits then the ballistic difference is much less important. One thing about a 308 is the barrel will last a very long time all else being equal. But, just like many don't really shoot long range, many don't put that many rounds down the barrel to wear it out either. If you do shoot a lot its a great round to practice with and does just fine for most hunting situations. I have an FN 308 with a chrome lined barrel that has over 7000 rounds down the barrel and still shoots well. The chrome lining helps but so does the cartridge.

First, I love the 308 as a hunting round but the 6.5 CM beats it without beating on you. If I didn't have a 1000 yard range, I'd not own one but it sure is nice to hit a 1000 yard plate all afternoon and not be sore or shell shocked. It's just easy to shoot and has good barrel life.

Fair points above. The 6.5 CM appears to be a great round. I just haven't been shooting out to 1,000 yds. If I did, I likely would take one of my potent long-action rifles.

For what I do, if I had a good-shooting 6.5 CM, I wouldn't feel the need to get a .308, but I think the opposite also is true.

I remember seeing a small stack of these at the Indy 1500 gun show back in the day. I remember thinking I needed one but something shiny distracted me. I could say I wish I had bought the lot but I’m sure I would have traded them for something stupid back then.

I know psa had uppers at one point, even 708 uppers

MarineHawk, you are not getting the point. If you use your "potent long-action rifles", they are going to beat you up. The beauty in the creedmoor is you can extend your range sessions. Hence, more practice. Even compared to the 308win, it has very light recoil and you can shoot it all day long. That is the point. You are also veering way off the subject matter at hand, by suggesting you'd use a bigger heavier cartridge. Are you suggesting you have an AR10 chambered in 300wm or something? Remember we are talking AR10 rifles chambered in 243 and why you don't see a lot of them. One guy mentioned the 6.5 creedmoor overshadowing it and that is a very true statement. I know guys have mentioned the creedmoor beating the 308w AR10 out to 1,000 + yards, but the simple fact that it allows you to get more practice in at any range is a highly desirable trait. Like I've said before, your LR 308 is a nice one and it is light, probably great for hunting even, but it's not going to compete with something like my performance center 6.5. Not at 100, 400, 600 or even 1000 yards. Just not going to happen. Your best bet in the longrange game would be the heavy azzed juggernaut like tyrone suggested, but its going to beat you up. You aren't going to want to shoot 200 rounds in a day with your lightweight DPMS LR 308, trust me..

My .308 semi-auto just doesn't beat me or anyone up. It's a child's toy. I've shot 20 rounds in a few seconds. It's nothing. I don't shoot 200 rounds in a day at 1,000 yards. If you do, I defer to you. But a semi-auto .308 ain't gonna beat me up with 200 rounds. I can barely feel my .308 after shooting for a while.

Didnt Remington offer the R10 in 243 WIN?

We have plates every 100 yards except for 800 and a dualing tree of sorts at 400. We get caught up in shooting here and there and before we know it, we’re out of ammo. It ain’t hard to do.

This is the 1000 yard plates looking back to that little spec that is our shooting bench. The wind can blow 3 different directions at once here. High BC bullets make it easier. Without thinking about burning my barrel up, I brought my 22-250AI up there with 75 Amax’s and got my rear handed to me by two 6.5CM shooters. I bought a 6.5CM the next week. Chronographed some factory 147 grain ammo at barely 2500 FPS in my 18” barrel and thought no way it’ll make it up the hill. Figured the dope and started hitting the plates. Made hits through the wind that blew the 75 Amax who knows where. It just freaking works.

Is it better than the 308? Considering the 308 goes transonic around 850-900 yards, I’d say maybe for this game.

Sorry for getting off topic, the 243 is great but my buddy has one and he also bought a 6.5CM...

I shoot with a lot of guys too. See some of the same things you do. We shoot steel at a private range. Even out to just 500 yards there, the 6.5 cm rivals the competition. I'm not saying this because I don't like 308win or I like man buns or anything, but as you say, when/if you get your azz handed to you, you start to learn real quick what works and what doesn't. Even at 500 yards, guys shooting 308's and 300wm's, just don't make the consistent hits on steel that the 6.5 does. I'll hit a 2" plate at 400 yards consistently 80% of the time. Some guys have yet to even hit it once with their big magnums, and that is only 400 yards. At 500 yards, I can only hit it 1/2 the time.

I really don’t see much difference till 900 yards, my 22-250AI will make hits pretty easy out to 700 but up on the hill the wind is crazy and that’s where we see the big difference.

The lowly 223 is pretty consistent out to 500 yards but 600 is a different animal. Though after shooting long for awhile, 300 yards with a red dot seems easy. That’s why I love this range. My friend let me hang some steel here and we’ve just added to it. I’ve learned so much from this that I would’ve never thought about otherwise.

But if I were shooting only to 5 or 600 yards, I doubt I could tell much difference between the 243, 6.5 or 308.

What the OP seems to be missing is that just because the local gunshop doesn't stock something, doesn't mean it isn't available. They can't carry everything but they sure can order it. In fact, since he specifically mentions uppers, he can order it himself.

NO, What the orignal poster was "missing" was that I was thinking a bolt action and AR in same caliber, Love my 243, but idiot me was looking at AR-15 Uppers. NOT Ar-10.

Thank you for trying to speak for me, I appreciate it,

A shoulder injury will argue that there is plenty of difference between the 90gr .243 and the 168gr .308 recoil.

Because manufactures are stuck on the 1 in 10" twist on most, but put 1 in 8" or 9" on the 6mmm Creedmoor.

I had one that shot patterns with anything bigger than 95gr