Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns INTERSTING GUN FIGHT #SHOTS STATS

Really? Please, go on and enlighten us...

Here's an example of two of the new generation of trainers available to you if you have the inclination. Both have killed a lot of bad guys post 9/11.

WTF is interesting about that article?

As for distance:

A subsonic SD pistol round will generally be on at 25 yards, 1.5-2" low at 50, and 12-15" low at 100.

Given that, MOA still dictates hit probability.

A 2"/10 yd. group - will result in a 5"/25 yd. group, and a 10"/50 yd. group, if one ignores the range and simply shoots w/ the same precision.


As for carry ammo capacity/reloads:

LEOs are required to shoot their way Into trouble, while the armed citizen is generally only required to shoot their way Out.

And, for the armed citizen, understanding what their particular reasonable threat is, seems to be the issue.


A pistol reload, however, for mechanical failures, seems prudent.

But would put marksmanship and movement ahead of total rounds carried.




GR

I wonder if these stats are a chicken-egg situation.

If most concealed carriers carry small round count pistols and primarily practice at close range, should we be surprised that most civilian shootings involve low round counts at close range?......Which convince more folks to carry small round count pistols and practice at close range.

I don't practice enlightenment but, the firearms instruction community is now dominated by guys that have made hundreds of hits on very dangerous bad guys and have led a continuing evolution in tactics and practices.

If I wish to improve my survivability I prefer to learn from folks that earned their credentials in the worlds toughest arenas in the current century.

YMMV


mike r

Gentlemen I think we're offtrack. Streetthugs normally don't carry AK's and speak Arabic or Farsi.Terrorists don't normally smoke crack or steal for meth. Congrats to the Mil folks but I don't think the Seals are swapping to Shield+ or J frames.

Nor are informed civilians using J frames anymore. The enemy you describe deserves and may require your best. You can decide what that is for yourself. If you think you are good enough you are probably wrong.



mike r

Drive-bys with imported semiauto AKs are not uncommon.

And vests? As anyone gleaned any current information that insinuates vests becoming more common?

Huh. Flash suppression from a silencer had never occurred to me as a consideration.

What is that worst case scenario? And how are you equipped to handle it?



And again, what is the worst? And how are you prepared for it?

Getting caught in a random shooting from an adversary with an AK or AR would be one worst case type scenario.
For an average person to be prepared as best a normal person could, would be to have to a semi auto with a good magazine capacity and a reload. Also to be aware of your surroundings. To be a practiced shooter as well and hope for the best outcome

I'm sorry, I'll try and do better next time...

About 100 million times more likely.

Police are paid to be the aggressor, escalate the situation and make an arrest. To that end, they need different tactics, equipment, etc. than a concealed carrying citizen. That is why I talk about CC'ers NOT being in the cop business. Far too many guys engage in this mental masturbation dreaming of being the hero who saves the hostage or stops a platoon of ninja jihadists.

The thought process for getting yourself out of a lethal situation is far different for an armed citizen.

Go ahead and play with yourselves whilst entertaining your hero fantasies.

There are worse worse case scenarios than that; for instance, 2 adversaries with AK or AR's. Is anyone prepared for that? My point is that there is always a worse worse case scenario, so it's impossible to be prepared for everything. How to decide how prepared to be is the question, The gunfight stats are a way of assessing that, imperfect thought they may be. You have decided that a pistol + a reload is sufficient, but aren't other options on either side of that level of preparedness perfectly reasonable as well? (Including a snub nose?) Not trying to be argumentative here, I'm not a LEO or ex-military so I have no basis for arguing. Just trying to apply reason to the question of what/how much to carry.

How about an ambush so you never have a chance?
You fid as I figured trolled. A Jframe I don't find adequate fir a lot of situations. I carry a P365 load re d with a 15 rd mag and a spare 16 rd mag. The P365 is easier to make accurate shots than a jframe by for and holds a lot more ammo

I doubt that I'd ever need that much ammo thus prepared for a worst case scenario

Thanks, Jorge. I'm in the camp that feels if one needs a gun, he is going to need it very badly. What's more, he will do best if he is using what he shoots best under stress. The other thing I've learned is to slow down and make sure you hit what you need to. Use the sights, or the front sight at least. When your life is on the line, focusing on that front sight is the toughest thing you will ever do.
I understand that LAPD has the highest survival rate of any large city PD. They are required to shoot a lot and use that method. E

personally I dont think it's a this or that decision and my choices and preperation needs varies. i ive in a very rural area. with a relatively low crime index. however 30 moniutes away is a shidt hole fo a city with shootings becoming pretty common. that is relavent to me because thos same schidtheads are travelling to my area more and more for "bGusiness" mos often I feel pretty comfortable with Sig 226 in 357 and a spare 15 round mec gar. contrast to this week I spent 9 days in Philthadelphia while my daugher was in the hospital. I opted for an xds 45 and 3 spare six round magazines, as it was easier to conceal in the Hospital. this trip involved walkin several blocks through "the hood" to wthe motel I was staying at. an AR SBR in a mystery ranch Pintler walking back and forth was quite comforting

Sounds good to me