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Okay, now I'm getting a little argumentative, but words have meanings. Phrases like "worst case scenario" get thrown around way too carelessly.

Just as I thought trolling BS I don't need to be in a gun fight with a jframe to find it inadequate my certain situations in my opinion you pompous azz

I've shot a jframes enough to know their capabilities

So it's your way or the highway, right? Got it.

Yes, I'm trolling...trolling for information and questioning certain things that I see as unclear or presumptuous. If that makes me a pompous azz, then so be it. Pretty clear who the thin-skinned one here is.

I hope your command of your weapon is better than your command of the language.

No you are being an azx pure and simple. That stupid statement of have "I been in a gun fight with a jframe" proved your BS. Why would I need to be in a gunfight to realize the limitations of a jframe compared to a better weapon for concealed carry

These threads make it apparent who has or has not taken high level training and who does the work to achieve and maintain competency. I have been schooled regularly since 1980 on my own dime and while getting paid. I learned a lot and progressed to a certain level of competence. I tested myself for years by competing regularly in USPSA, IDPA and Inter agency matches.

Learning is a process of evolution and everything that I think and do has changed over time.

Since 9/11 guys like Paul Howe, Kyle Lamb, John McPhee, Kyle DeFoor, Travis Haley and others have made training based on real life experience and a dedication to excellence available to us normal folks. Simply stated modern weapons, tactics and procedures are vastly different and far superior from those of "the good old days"

Those that fail to recognize that fact cling to the old ways and sound foolish when trying to defend their lack of self improvement.

as always,YMMV


mike r

Geez, man, get a grip. When you said "A Jframe I don't find adequate fir a lot of situations" it sounded like you were saying that you had been in situations where it wasn't up to the job. And I never questioned the limitations of a Jframe. They are what they are and they have their place. My point has only been that there is always a worse worse case scenario and that we are fooling ourselves if we think we have every situation covered. How one decides how much is enough is for each to decide and I'm only trying to figure out how folks approach making that decision. It seems to me that "Worst case scenario" is not a good framework for making that decision.

Anyone with a drop of common sense knows that it is impossible to be prepared 100% for every conceivable situation. One can't walk around with 500 rds for their AR along with a few grenades.

I'd rather have an accurate semi auto pistol with a double stack mag, giving me a better weapon than any jframe, by its increased capacity and easier to hit with

I'm sure that YOU could come up with scenarios that a platoon would be needed to deal with

Practical approach IMHO

I don't understand what "practic approach IMHO" means.


mike r

Carry a gun, that's the important part. The rest is all personal preference.

It means typo

I've been shooting 1911s my whole life, including competitively for a bit whilst in the Navy. That is what I'm comfortable with. I also have my share (3) of stoker fired pistols (Glocks) which I like, but at this stage in my life I'm not willing to invest in retraining myself to shoot them as well and accurately as a 1911. Am I giving up an advantage due to the decreased capacity (9 v 15 plus)? you bet, but I'm convinced that in the kind of scenario I might find myself in where I have to skin leather, I can do it better than 90 plus per cent of the criminals out there. Lastly, even if these "studies" including the FBI one more or less say most "civilian encounters" are resolved with three shots or less, I'm good with my nine rounds plus a reload.

And as far as police are concerned, those stats are accurate and proof positive I can outshoot most of them and as to dealing with stress, I think I can do that better than most.. So yeah, it was an interesting study.

Quite a few of the more recent mass casualty events in everyday American venues have involved long guns, and street criminals with long guns are not that unusual. But, even a couple of bad guys with Glock 17s are nothing to sneeze at. Add some drugs or mental conditions that impact reactions to pain and you are looking at a pretty serious situation. We are fortunate these days because, for the approximate size of a J frame, one can get a much better platform with higher capacity, higher rate of fire, greater accuracy and easier reloading. Go in peace.

Believe it or not, I'm not trying to be provocative here. When someone says worst case scenario, what does that mean? And how did they arrive at their definition? As you say, common sense tells us that we can't be prepared for everything, so how does one decide what to prepare for?

I agree with you, I'd rather have the pistol as well. You said you carried a reload as well. How did you decide on one, none, or two extra magazines? I'm interested in how people decide, not so much what they decide on.

I decided that with one reload I have 31 rds and I decided that should be more than enough.

I live in a rural area and I never thought that we would have a random shooter but we did. If I am in my vehicle and get shot the way this guy did 4 people and I have the ability to return fire. I did not want to run out of ammo in my CCW

What police statistics are you referring to?

It's very simple. What can you reasonably carry that will give you the greatest capabilities in the widest variety of situations.

You are not preparing for a specific fight, because you have no idea what fight may come your way, so I've developed a carry posture that prepares me for a wide variety of possibilities while maintaining good concealability and a minimal interference with how I conduct my daily business. This equation will be different for everyone. For me, this means a double stack compact in 9mm with two additional mags and extra toys including medical either in the vehicle or sometimes in the labtop case. That's the base level, but as G-12 pointed out earlier, load out changes as circumstances dictate. That could mean a subcompact single stack for concealability, or something more substantial in a small pack.

I'll tell you what I don't carry.... a J-frame without a reload.

Very well stated

Thank you.

Right on man.