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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 15,885 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 15,885 Likes: 1 |
I see the 'attention ho' has already been on this thread.
Old Turd- Deplorable- Unrepentant Murderer- Domestic Violent Extremist
Just "Campfire Riffraff and Trash"
This will be my last post! Flave 1/3/21
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,817
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,817 |
Lots of interesting new developments in the field. Several private institutions are developing fusion technology.
The most promising is the ITER project (initiated 1985) built in France and operated by a multinational team. This promises to be the first example of a fusion reactor which will actually produce more energy than it requires to operate the containment magnets. It is planned to be fully operational by 2035 and should produce 500 Mwatts.
Safe fuel, the oceans are full of it. Yes you have to make the Tritium, but that will become part of the reactor process. And zero emissions. Zero toxic byproducts. No meltdowns. No explosions. If containment fails, the fuel Hydrogen gets cold and the reaction simply stops.
More advanced and more efficient containment technologies are in the pipeline.
Few of us will still be around to see it. But there may well be a hydrocarbon free future available by 2050.
All the sudden the Middle East will become as irrelevant as it was before Henry Ford built the model T.
My first psuedo-scientific "paper" was written on this subject back in 8'th grade Science class 1969. Keeping up on the developments has been an interest of mine since. I am excited to see the research finally beginning to bear fruit. Where is the science? A lot of very smart minds have been working on this problem for a very, very long time. So what has changed?
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,817
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,817 |
We use hydrocarbons for more than fuel.
They are the foundation of much of our organic chemical industry, being hydro carbons after all.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,876 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,876 Likes: 5 |
I’m not that old, but fusion has ALWAYS been “only 30 years away” as long as I can remember. Color me skeptical, but I don’t have a lot of faith in that changing.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,856 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,856 Likes: 4 |
And for the dolts here who are saying we will always need petrol for consumer goods:
Yea, no chit, sherlocks.
I am not arguing the need for petrol for plastics, rubber, etc. Don't be deliberately obtuse.
The post is about energy for power grids and large scale needs. Not your 40cc chainsaw.
Go [bleep] in your hat. The topic of 0% hydrocarbon came up. When absolutes are introduced, you immediately have problems in your argument. It was logical to point out the many uses of hydrocarbon bases. Not all, nobody has that much time. As for 40cc chainsaws? There is already battery tech to handle that. And those saws aren't usually operated for long periods. (Except by trimmers) It's bigger saws where there would be issues.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 59,147 Likes: 23
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 59,147 Likes: 23 |
And for the dolts here who are saying we will always need petrol for consumer goods:
Yea, no chit, sherlocks.
I am not arguing the need for petrol for plastics, rubber, etc. Don't be deliberately obtuse.
The post is about energy for power grids and large scale needs. Not your 40cc chainsaw.
Go [bleep] in your hat. The topic of 0% hydrocarbon came up. When absolutes are introduced, you immediately have problems in your argument. It was logical to point out the many uses of hydrocarbon bases. Not all, nobody has that much time. As for 40cc chainsaws? There is already battery tech to handle that. And those saws aren't usually operated for long periods. (Except by trimmers) It's bigger saws where there would be issues. Yes indeed it did, but the mere mention of "hydrocarbon free" makes the greenies cream their jeans every time. Few of us will still be around to see it. But there may well be a hydrocarbon free future available by 2050.
Paul
"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.
Trump Won!, Sandmann Won!, Rittenhouse Won!, Suck it Liberal Fuuktards.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,943 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,943 Likes: 7 |
What has changed is a slow but continuous advance in the science of magnetic containment fields as well as advances in the materials required to withstand the extreme heat of the environment.
There are dozens of small tokomak fusion reactors running in the world right now. But at present scale, they require more energy for containment than they produce.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,856 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,856 Likes: 4 |
If they are an energy minus endeavor, what's the point? Just research and advancement? Or is there an actual practical use?
You obviously have an interest and some understanding of this. All I know is practical fusion is the holy grail, and always just out of reach. Maybe I should have called it the brass ring!
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,943 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,943 Likes: 7 |
They consume more energy than they produce at present scale.
But the great news is, they have learned how to control the fusion reaction and can harness the energy of the sun.
As mentioned above, the ITER project should be producing 500 net megawatts within 15 years.
Still this does not mean the technology will get past America's political processes, despite the fact that we are a major contributor of the $ making it happen.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,856 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,856 Likes: 4 |
Absolutely. NIMBY. Econuts. Oil, gas, coal, interests. They are going to fight everything.
Plus.
It's hard to trust technology. Especially when they are playing with the sun's level of power. Government is corrupt and incompetent, business...same.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091 |
Old technology which is why they are releasing it to the public. Zero point modules are update technology but you can not find one.
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,817
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,817 |
What has changed is a slow but continuous advance in the science of magnetic containment fields as well as advances in the materials required to withstand the extreme heat of the environment.
There are dozens of small tokomak fusion reactors running in the world right now. But at present scale, they require more energy for containment than they produce. Plasma containment was being worked on the 60s. Just like quantum computers will change computing, the origin of life mystery (true abiogenesis) is just on the edge of being solved. Blah, blah ... we will see. The problem in al these cases is NOT that we don't understand the basic science extremely well. We do. There are more fundamental problems. Hey, you know, like maybe there is a reason that ALL contained fusion reactions in nature occur in immense gravitational fields.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,943 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,943 Likes: 7 |
I think the eco-nuts will be the first to embrace fusion. Deuterium is stable and is not radioactive. Tritium is slightly radioactive and does emit beta particles. Most importantly fusion does not entail any Uranium, Thorium, Radium, and especially Plutonium.
There are no hazardous waste products produced to require long time storage.
Tritium is safe enough that it is commonly used for night sights on handguns.
The petro industry will fight the transition to fusion tooth and nail.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091 |
And no not the zero point modules they use on the TV show Stargate Atlantus.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,025 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,025 Likes: 3 |
We will all be using roll up solar panels next year like the marines. Their maternity flight suits will have a special pocket for it. Biden will mandate time outs for charging in all wars and ask other countries not to fight at night.
Other than that there is some interesting pebble bed reactors that can run breader fuel being worked on at the INL. The ceramic encased fuel pellets are much less likely to melt down.
They developed some pretty advanced tech out there years ago at argon west but Clinton sold the tech to the French and Japanese for almost nothing. Now if we want to use our own tech we have to pay royalties to them.
Bb
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