Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters What good is 6mm?

I bought a Remington 660 Remington in 6 Rem with a cool past. It was the gun that Joe Nava trained all of his daughters to shoot from. It has a M8 with the lyman target dot 4X scope. I gave it to my niece. She is a super athlete and I have hopes of someday taking her sheep hunting. She won 3rd in 3200, 1600 and 800 this spring as a Sophomore with two seniors beating her. She can throw the hammer down and with some training in Colorado that she is doing, she should do very well next year. She probably goes a buck ten but is all muscle and I doubt that the caribou, sheep or moose will figure the difference if she puts the bullet in the right spot.

Shaman, it’s what makes politics, horse races, and choices in women — people see things differently, but if you’re strictly a deer hunter, I can’t see a real reason for the Whelen, and arguably, even for a thirty, unless it’s really the rifle you like. But I really can for a 243 or any of the similar 6mm flavors.

It’s the gentle cartridge of my youth until I scorned it for more attractive, beckoning long-legged lovelies. But like the prodigal son, I returned a couple years ago. Assuming they’re available again, there are an even boatload of 243 loads OTC that can be well used on deer.

I will take it along should I draw a Nebraska mule deer tag this fall.

I have owned and used both the 243s and the 6MM Remingtons years ago. Loaded with good bullets I found them to be just fine for deer and also for anything smaller, but I never shot any game larger than a deer with any 6MM bullet. I found the Nosler partition to be excellent for deer and I loaded some lighter bullet for coyotes and rock chucks.

Today I own no 6MM bore rifles. I found I preferred the 25 cals (257 Roberts and 25-06) but I can't really say anything bad about the 6MMs.

Then In my late 30s and 40s I made a Mauser rifle for myself in 6.5X55 Swede and found the sweet spot (for me at least)

I don't have a 6.5X55 anymore but that's because I let a friend beat me out of the 2 I had. Loaded with light bullets of around 120-125 the Swede did all the 6MMs and the 25s do, and with the ability to fire bullets up to 160 grains I believe it's better then any 24 or 25 I even used. Not that I can say anything bad about my 24s or my 25s (I still own a 25-06 because it's a great deer/antelope rifle and I made it for a very good friend who willed it back to me when he died so that 25-06 will never be sold)
The Swede is my idea of the best of the lot for a great killer with very light recoil and is super versatile The new 6.5CM falls in the same class.

So as I have advanced in age and used so many different guns and a LOT of different cartridges I have liked many of them, but today I have let go of all my 6MMs and all but one 25 caliber the one I got back from my friend. I do have a 6.5X54 Mannlicher and it's been wonderful, but I choose the round because that's what the action was made to use, not because there is anything better about the old 1903 M/S round compared to the Swede or the new Creedmoor. My 6.5M/S fires a 156 or 160 grain Round Nose at about 2200 FPS so it lacks any modern glamor. But it does kill very well.

From a ballistic standpoint and from the standpoint of how well I have seen various shells and bullets kill, if I only had a 223, a 6.5 Swede (or 6.5CM) and then step up to a 270 I would have plenty of "over-lap" in the game fields. I still think extremely highly of the 270 Win as a great game killer and have over 50 years of use behind me with several 270s, but I don't argue the fact that the Swede and the CM do kick notable less. Not that a 270 hurts at all, but some folks just like as little recoil as they can get, and the 6.5s seem to me that with light bullets they kick no harder then the 243s or 25-06s

So for me I have no real feeling of want for a 6MM or a 25, but I can't say anything bad about them either. I just feel no burning need (or even want) for anything between my 223s and a 6.5MM. But that's just me.

Others love them and that is good.

Shoot what you like and you will shoot it better then something you don't like.

Let me say first, it's good to see you.

20 years ago, I showed up with 2 30-06's and a .223 REM. From there on out, it has been a journey of the heart, egged on by my esteemed brethren here at the 'Fire.

Need? Want? It's hard to tell the difference when you're flirting with addiction.




To Mister Mule Deer:

I have been reading your work and taking your kind advice for a very long time. It has been long enough to recognize that you've written that about a lot of chamberings. That's not a criticism. I know the advice is true; I know it comes from experience.

"The truth is any reasonable cartridge will kill deer as long as we put the bullet in the right place."

I found that gem in the first Gun Gack; it was stuck in the chapter on .243 WIN.



As I've been reading through this thread, I see one overriding theme. It hasn't been what others of written, but what is going on in my head as I read. There is general reticence to give in to the lure of .243 WIN. I did not see it when I started the thread. However, I have to acknowledge it is there.

I must admit to a certain bias. In 2014, I drew a line in my life and bought what I vowed would be my last 30-06. At the same time, I retired my 35 Whelen after a decade of supremely good venison production. The point was that I had come to a point where I had plenty of .30-somethings in my life and it was time to start exploring the other side of the spectrum. I had also started to see that recoil was becoming an issue. These were sound choices. I have not regretted them.

This past year, I investigated 7mm-08, and I was amazed at the performance. However, in the back of my head, I started hearing the tick of a clock. It made me chafe. I'm really not ready for the next step down the road. That probably also explains why I've been letting my 25-06 Mauser sit for several seasons with new loads unblooded, and why I brought the Whelenizer out of retirement and started tinkering with 180 grain loads.

Bottom line: I'm probably not ready for a .243 WIN, although it looks like a really good round.

True for certain, but what about "panache?" To me that's the thing that seems to favor the 6mm Rem. How can a round that shares so much with the 7x57 and the .257 Roberts not just ooze coolness?
I own three .243 Winchesters but would still love a nice slim 6mm Rem sporter. I've had a couple 1936 Mex '98 actions lying around for decades, one of which has been destined to be a 6mm "when I get around to it."
Yet I have not suffered for the lack of it all these years...LOL

"Need" indeed - Ha! I "want!"
Cheers,
Rex

I had a model 700 Remington SA chambered in 6mm Remington and it did everything I ever desired of it, but I never hot rodded it so I guess it was no better than a .243 Win. But chambering it in a longer action could improve its performance. I have a spare Yugo 24/47 Mauser action that I'm going to barrel in 6mm Remington with a 1:8 twist barrel. I think that would make it somewhat superior to a .243 as far as powder capacity. I'll also get my gun smith to make a longer throat which will allow me to take advantage of it's full potential. I believe there's a lot of purpose for a good 6mm.

Filaman,

The gain in powder room you'd get with all that fiddling with the 6mm Remington in a longer action/throat might get an extra 100 fps--if you load the 6mm to higher pressures, which is where that sort of gain usually comes from. It's the same sort of deal with "improved" cartridges, whether Ackleys or others: The gain normally comes from loading them to higher pressures, not any magic in a few extra grains of powder capacity.

As I've pointed out in the past, any gain in powder capacity results in about 1/4 as much gain in velocity when handloaded to the same pressure. The 6mm Remington has about 4% more powder room than the .243 Winchester, which means it gets around 1% more velocity when loaded to the same pressure. You might gain another 4% in powder room with a longer action and throat--which would mean another 1% in velocity, for a total of 2% in velocity over the .243, or 60 fps with loads getting around 3000. The average 100-grain 6mm spitzer loses that much velocity at about 25 yards from the muzzle.

If you really want a significant gain in velocity in a long action you'd have to go to a larger cartridge, such as the .240 Weatherby or 6mm-06. Oh, and by the way, the .240 does not have as much powder room as the 6mm-06, due to its thinner body in front of the belt.

That seems like a lot of extra work to give you essentially 25-06-level performance. What am I missing?

Nothing. You don't need a 6.

Ah, but you’re forgetting about the amazing and mysterious super-power of a short action!

Actually, around here, a .25/06 is perhaps just a bit more than needed, just like the .270-.280-.308-.30/06 clan. OTOH, John Wooters, who knew a thing or two, thought .25 caliber was a good minimum for trophy deer, IIRC, and may have actually mentioned the .25/06 specifically. Been a while since I read his book. Never had one, but had a .257. If I do ever get one, it’ll probably get loaded like a .257, just as I load the .30/06 like. .308, a .308 like a .300 Savage, etc. My 6s get loaded closer to the line.

Never fear, when you get ready for a 6, we’ll all be here for you.😜

I am buoyed by that, for some reason.

Then on the other hand, Sam Kinison once said that friends are the kind of guys who'll let you piss in your suitcase.

I assume that statement refers to the body size of “trophy deer”. We grow them pretty big up here, and a 6 with the right bullets works as well as anything else.

I enjoy shooting long range when our hunting season is over, and have friends that enjoy coming and shooting with me, some are from TP&W, Texas Parks & Wildlife Some From TDPS,Texas Hi-Way Patrol, And some are Ex-Military, some are Campfire members, no one has ever come with a .25 any thing,to shoot long range?? but the 6mms 6.5mms 7mms, 30 cal. 338 cal. are very well represented. This is also true with our hunters in the last 20 yrs I can remember one 25-06, There must be some reason, I don't dislike the 25s, but for what i do there's no place for them.

Rio7

My memory is rusty, but I remember when I acquired my 25-06 that there was some buzz that 25-06 was prone to burning out barrels prematurely. My acquisition was a last favor for a dying friend. I bought his deer rifle so he'd have the cash. Prior to that, I'd not really had much interest in the chambering.

Until recently the 25 cal was not one having a selection of high BC bullets while the other calibers mentioned have had many for a good while.

The high BC train chugs forward seemingly & indiscriminately singling out cartridges that might not have enjoyed modern bullet enhancement. The .25 has had no real, commercial love - ever. The .270 is just now starting to see these offerings and when it does, even more folks will select the diameter vs the renowned 7mm when the recoil generated vs impact energy at a particular range is calculated. Smaller cartridges will always win the recoil war with game killing bullets if only BC is calculated and to some extent we are realizing that the marketing of ‘magnums’ made zero sense in the game fields and more sense to companies peddling their newest & finest. 6.5 Creed is famous for shining the brightest light on this fact.

Funny constant is, as we fill our lives with endless data and improved information, is that most game animals are still killed under 300 yards. Every cartridge from .223 up with proper bullets is a great killer of deer sized animals from that standpoint. Some might even surmise that you could be over gunned with a 6. High or low BC doesn’t even matter within this range envelope.

I’d get the 6 - it’s a great killer - pick good bullets well and poke holes in the right places - it’ll shine as it should. Plus it’s a true pleasure to shoot from a recoil standpoint.

Rambling .02

I have had a 6mm Rem since the 1970’s great round in a Remington 700 BDL. I have shot it at varmints Deer and Antelope. I never hunted anything larger with it than Deer both Whitetails and Mule Deer. I also shot my biggest Deer with it as well.

What good is a 6MM, well it makes a fine coyote rifle with 55 grain Ballistic Tips. 3900 fps is stepping right along.

I long ago lost track of the other Alaskan hunters I know that started out with a .243 Win. and started their kids out with a .243 Win. Which I believe is about the same as a 6mm. Many a caribou, moose, black bear, sheep and goat fell to a 6mm bullet and I believe a few years ago, one of the largest and oldest "grizzly bears" taken in Alaska was taken out of Kotzebue by a lady with a .243 Win.

I started my girls out with a 30-06 and 200 grain Partitions, poor girls. They finally got used to the 30-06, but I switched them to the 168 grain Barnes TTSX and their shoulder appreciates it and the critters ain't complaining. I did invest in a 6.5 Creed in case I get a chance to take some youngster hunting again.

The 5.56 or .223 with a Barnes X bullet works well on our caribou and I doubt any "lower 48" deer is much tougher then a large caribou that has spent it's life running from wolves and bears and migrating all over Alaska and Canada. Many critters are harvested in Alaska every year with a AR or Mini 14 firing .223 rounds, I mean a bunch of critters.

I can't imagine any deer surviving a well placed 6mm bullet at a decent impact velocity. I mean how big is a deer any way?

This is a pretty sensible post and nears my experiences where I owned .243's for about 20 years as well as having a .257 Weatherby and .270 in that range until I did a rebarrel on another action and chose the .25/06 with a 26" barrel length. The .243 I never liked in a 22" barrel, as I could notice the difference in blast between that and a 24" tube but the cartridge itself was fine. I chose Sako Foresters for that cartridge with the longer barrel. The 257 Wby was terrific in any company and seemed to drop deer sized game faster meaning more consistently than the .270 back in those cup and core days.

I still have that .25/06 and the others have gone, never to be replaced, as the additional 20 grains available in .257 caliber seems to bridge the gap between .243 and the 7mm's which I also like.

These days the 6.5's have crept into that slot providing more choices so it can be difficult to separate the worth between that group of cartridges and may lay with the rifle platform more rather than the cartridge chambering itself. I had and saw a lot of 6.5x55 cartridge use from the 80's into the mid 90's and it behaved more like a .270 than a .243 so that is something else that may say opinion away from the .243 bore.

In the end, cartridges are more similar than bullets are, so you can do more and cover wider usage with any cartridge based on the bullets you choose. I think that is why we see more interest in rifle platforms than we used to as the market has expanded way beyond the traditional 3 choices of Model 70, Model 700 or Mauser offerings.

My perspective is as a hunter shooting animals, not the perspective of the theorist, who twiddles turrets and shoots through hurricanes for the additional challenge to reach POA in the next county.

Having said that, I did own an original .240 Wby with 26" barrel in the 9 lug Mark V action. That was a dream to shoot, very accurate and dropped deer sized animals indistinguishably from the .25/06 so there is some grey in there between those 2 calibers. For practical reasons, the .240 is also gone.