Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters A way with words; why some write, and the rest of us read

I might need a hint as to where it was most recently published,
Though it does sound somehow vaguely familiar. I could’ve skimmed over it less than a month ago

As it turns out I’m going on gopher safari over the next few days,
reassured by the panache of my principal shooting irons,
a couple of late 40’s BRNO Model 1 & 3 . In .22LR

When I’ve taken time to observe carefully , they clearly are Controlled Feeders !
And I am Re-Assured by that.

The SMLE is a push feed, and I was informed by a well known Enfield collector the other day that the 1917 was designed to single feed as well
Cat

I suspect at least some of the reported failures with 98s involve ones that have been re-barreled to cartridges “outside the family” without proper fitting. With so many bazillions out there, many made under wartime conditions, some doubtless squeaked through without proper fitting as well. Only had one converted military, and it came with a short follower, but no mag block, so had issues. The smith who sold it to me fixed it right up.

Still, I’ve come to appreciate good push-feeds too. What works works.

When JB writes an article, you feel you are right there with him testing the rifle, that’s the difference between a great writer and a average writer in my opinion.

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Mule Deer


With your permission I would like to 'steal' that for my sig line.
W/o it I won't.


Jerry
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OK!

The British manuals of the late 1800s/early 1900s were written or approved by senior officers who were trained with single shot rifles as cadets. We are products of our generation, so when Lee Enfields were created, they were fitted with magazine cutoffs. It was a piece of metal that slid over the magazine and prevented cartridges from being chambered from the mag.

Standard training back then was for soldiers to single feed - just like Martinis. It was thought that controlled fire could be maintained with an NCO/jr officer controlling the load/fire sequence in battle. It also prevented wasting ammunition. Feeding from the magazine was for "exigent circumstances only". IOW, when shtf.

Added: "Failures" of push feed rifles throughout history were almost always those of a man, not the mechanism.

If you actually understand CRF vrs PF you will recognize that the SMLE most certainly has a CRF mechanism. The large Mauser extractor is not the only way to achieve that !

OK!
[/quote]

Thank You Sir.

Well.... I made a few attempts to shorten my sig line but I was 16 characters OVER the limit so I could NOT use your quote.
I tried.

Thanks Anyway

Jerry

[/quote] If you actually understand CRF vrs PF you will recognize that the SMLE most certainly has a CRF mechanism. The large Mauser extractor is not the only way to achieve that !
[/quote]

Yep, and many people make this mistake. In fact, when the original Ruger 77 appeared, with a "Mauser-type extractor," a few of the supposedly professional gun writers of the era assumed it was CRF--when it was push-feed.

The so-called "controlled push-feed" Model 70 action for the WSSM rounds is CRF, and basically a copy of the M1 Garand's system.

I have written about it more than once, probably first in a story for SUCCESSFUL HUNTER magazine about grizzly hunting, and then again in an article for another magazine about repeat shooting. The first became a chapter in my 2011 book BORN TO HUNT, a collection of hunting stories, and the second a chapter in THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK II, titled "Shoot 'Em Again."

shaman,

A description of the "slap" method is included in the "Shoot 'Em Again" chapter in GUN GACK II. I have described it elsewhere, but that's probably the most available source.

Would also like to comment that it is very possible to jam a typical Mauser-extractor CRF action by short-stroking, contrary to what some shooters believe.

Yep, and many people make this mistake. In fact, when the original Ruger 77 appeared, with a "Mauser-type extractor," a few of the supposedly professional gun writers of the era assumed it was CRF--when it was push-feed.

The so-called "controlled push-feed" Model 70 action for the WSSM rounds is CRF, and basically a copy of the M1 Garand's system.
[/quote]
So how does the SMLE qualifies as a CRF action John, I don't understand .
Cat

For me it has been Gary Sitton and Ross Seyfried, hands down.

It actually can do both. Feeding from the magazine, as you push the bolt forward the bottom edge of the bolt face pushes the cartridge forward out of the magazine and the case head slides up the bolt face, under the extractor, as you drive the bolt home. If you stop before the bolt goes all the way forward, and pull it back, it will bring the round with it and eject it. This is CRF.

It will also function as PF, if you drop a round on the follower (or cutoff for those rifles that have one). When you push the bolt forward it pushes the round into the chamber, and as the bolt closes the extractor snaps over the rim. This is something an unmodified Mauser 98 won't do, as the extractor is not designed to snap over the rim.

My push feed Savage will eject if I pull it put before fully chambering as well, interesting fir sure.
Cat

That'll sometimes work with PF actions.

I mentioned earlier that it is indeed possible to jam a CRF action by short-stroking. Saw one example of this around 15 years ago, when custom gunsmith Charlie Sisk started an annual field-shooting school for his customers on a ranch in South Texas. I was invited to show up early (along with several other "industry" people, including guides) to help set up and tweak the shooting stations, and because I shot the initial "dangerous game" station quicker than anybody else, was chosen to improve it, and be the instructor.

Eventually the event grew big enough that I improved the "charging Cape buffalo" station to a life-sized target run on rails, using an ATV to tow it from behind some bushes about 50-60 yards away. The target ran closely past the shooting station, and it was rare for anybody except very practiced shooters to get three shots off before the target came past. (I managed to do it twice in a row with Finn Aaagard's old .375 H&H, which Berit brought to the event. The action was pretty slicked up by long use!)

The event also offered various prizes, which eventually included a Tanzanian safari as first prize. There were also no restrictions on cartridge or rifle--or who would shoot. As a result, the last year one of the contestants (who owned a nice airplane, with a hired pilot) chose the pilot to shoot the contest. He was a guy about 30, who was a good shot--and the rifle his boss chose was a CRF .308 Winchester, which in theory would be faster to use due to lower recoil than, say, a .375 H&H.

Obviously the young guy was under a lot of pressure, perhaps almost as much as during a real buffalo charge. He short-stroked the action on the first run, which partially picked up another round due to friction, despite that theoretically not being possible, and jammed it tight. So he did not even place. (Do not know whether he retained his pilot job.)

But he was using the standard method of grabbing the bolt-knob in a death grip. I suspect if he'd used the slap method (or practiced more) he might have done better. But have seen the same thing happen now and then with other CRF actions, especially where the hunter hasn't practiced much--or is under pressure.

We've had this conversation before, but it is worth noting (again) that the "slap" method seems to be one which only has currency in the US. Here, and in Europe (including Britain) the ball and socket grip on the bolt knob seems to be the go. In fact in military training here the "palming" of the bolt was actively and vigorously discouraged.

You don't want a "death grip" though - the wrist in particular needs to flex, so that the opening and closing consists of two movements, not four: One more or less diagonally up and back, and one forward and down. You work it like you mean it. There's a lot less lost motion than with palming or the "slap" method. You see it in videos of Stanskyting competition, where often they'll also use another technique I learned as a kid: keeping hold of the bolt knob in the ball and socket grip and tripping the trigger with the middle finger each time the bolt locks closed.

I suppose the main thing though, regardless of which method you use, you need to practice it, so that it is a matter of muscle memory and so that you can do it reliably under pressure. No doubt you have seen many examples of people fumbling this under pressure, as I have, because they haven't practiced.

Here we are fortunate to have plenty of opportunities to practice. As well as service rifle competition, using bolt actions, which has such things as double snap and rapid serials (a lot of fun) we have lots of ferals, with no closed season and no bag limits. Knocking several pigs out of a mob before they make cover is a good test of how slick is your rifle handling. I've dropped as many as eight out of a mob, including stuffing additional rounds in as I ran to keep them in view.

Dan,

I have seen the competition shooting where one finger remains on the trigger, and have practiced it myself--with short-action rifles, especially rimfires. Can also see how it would work with my shorter-action rifles.

But cannot compehennd how it would with, say, the .375 H&H or similar length cartridges. If you have any insights on this would appreciate them.

The middle finger doesn't need to remain on the trigger. Indeed, as you've noticed, with a long throw action you can't do it, even if you have hands as big as mine. The point to it is that thumb and forefinger stay on the bolt knob the whole time, and in order to do this the middle finger trips the trigger, as soon as the bolt knob reaches the end of its travel.